Windows doesn't "just work"
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I'd summarize the current OS situation as
Windows Just Works until it doesn't, at which point there's basically nothing you can do about it and you just have to kick it until something clicks into place and it starts working properly again.
Whereas linux Just Works to a slightly smaller degree, but when it stops Just Working it does so in granular steps most of the time, and every part of the ecosystem tries to help you fix things when they break.
Windows is a resin-potted black box that takes input and does stuff, if it breaks you're supposed to just chuck it and buy a new one.
Linux is a slightly bulkier thing that you can just unscrew and replace a capacitor when it breaks.Only if you refuse to put forth the same effort into fixing windows as you do with Linux. Not wanting to learn doesn't mean it's not learnable.
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yeah no i'm sorry but this just sounds completely fucking made up
Oh I just did that
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I almost never had Linux not boot after a fresh install, even with nVidia hardware. It happened a few times like 10 years ago and never again. What hardware are you running?
If you're willing to put up with the low security options provided by default and don't have a weird laptop, maybe.
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Laptops have historically been a little iffy yeah. Personally I haven't had many issues except for Nvidia optimus, but since most of them are non standard and proprietary it used to be kind of a pain.
Now though it's much better, at least on newer hardware, even my newest laptop with hybrid graphics just worked out of the box.Lol "the main computer market is iffy"
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Was windows dev for 10 years, I switched to Linux for work and I'm never going back : everything is simpler (may not be easier though) and makes sense whereas you constantly work against the system in windows. It's an opinion so widespread they even made a subsystem to use Linux tools on windows.
As a user windows installation is an utter nightmare, getting rid of the thousands stuff you don't want is horrible. And also you may not even be able to install it without special ssd drivers that you have to side load manually (for some pretty basic asus hardware)
Also don't get me started on the nearly mandatory microsoft account
You donât have to get rid of all the stuff, it doesnât break the system like missing sounds or whatnot. Some of its even helpful like weather and news. Plus it isnât that hard to make a Microsoft account, donât you need one anyway for Minecraft? And since when do you need drivers for an SSD, donât those usually work out of the box?
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What PCs? Certified by some Linux supporting company? If you buy a random laptop or pre-made PC, chances are high, that it won't work. And I'm not even a "beginner", who does "beginner" mistakes. No, I'm actually a Linux pro. I work with Linux literally every single day, even in my free time.
Nah just stuff I built myself or random laptops.
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Some old Lenovo laptop with an Intel iGPU and an AMD GPU I can't remember, worked out of the box but was a bit finicky for some things. I don't remember what it was, it broke years ago.
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ASUS TUF FX504GM (1060 maxq), zero issues on X11
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Lenovo Legion 5 (3070 + AMD iGPU), zero issues, daily driver
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Custom Desktop (1070 + Intel iGPU though I didn't really use it), some issues but i was testing Wayland years ago. Good on X11.
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Custom Desktop (7900xtx + 3080), zero issues, daily driver. It used to just have a 3080, it's fairly solid on Wayland as well but not perfect.
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A few other random laptops and desktop some friends owned over the years, fairly smooth on pretty much all of them.
I've found in general that anything that doesn't have an Nvidia card as the display output works fine. Wayland is getting quite usable on Nvidia as well, but there are still growing pains. Still, no black screens anywhere.
Sure I've tinkered a bit during the years, but I almost never had a black screen on install. I did brick my display drivers a few times (just Nvidia being a pain, mostly) but it was mostly my fault.
It may be you've just been really unlucky. There are definitely hardware combinations out there that cause problems, but I haven't really found any particularly problematic ones up until now.
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How to install the app on Linux.
You search for it. Highly likely it is not available or barely functional.
IF it works, it's only packaged for Ubuntu, Debian and Arch. If you use Nix or something even more niche, good luck with proprietary software or sometimes even openly available open source software.
Or, you DO find it, but itâs glitchy/outdated (I think there was an issue with Steam). Or you search for the program, find the website, download a .tar.gz, wonder what the hell is this double extension abomination, double click it, doesnât work, look it up, apparently itâs a type of container like a zip and not a basic program like an exe and instead of using the GUI like a normal person you have to type âtar -xcvâ or something that might as well be black magic (I canât even remember the correct letters), then to actually install you have to find the magic âmakeâ âsudo make installâ command, and it still fails.
Much easier to double click the .exe, accept the license agreement, and hit continue a few times.
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Nah just stuff I built myself or random laptops.
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Some old Lenovo laptop with an Intel iGPU and an AMD GPU I can't remember, worked out of the box but was a bit finicky for some things. I don't remember what it was, it broke years ago.
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ASUS TUF FX504GM (1060 maxq), zero issues on X11
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Lenovo Legion 5 (3070 + AMD iGPU), zero issues, daily driver
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Custom Desktop (1070 + Intel iGPU though I didn't really use it), some issues but i was testing Wayland years ago. Good on X11.
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Custom Desktop (7900xtx + 3080), zero issues, daily driver. It used to just have a 3080, it's fairly solid on Wayland as well but not perfect.
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A few other random laptops and desktop some friends owned over the years, fairly smooth on pretty much all of them.
I've found in general that anything that doesn't have an Nvidia card as the display output works fine. Wayland is getting quite usable on Nvidia as well, but there are still growing pains. Still, no black screens anywhere.
Sure I've tinkered a bit during the years, but I almost never had a black screen on install. I did brick my display drivers a few times (just Nvidia being a pain, mostly) but it was mostly my fault.
It may be you've just been really unlucky. There are definitely hardware combinations out there that cause problems, but I haven't really found any particularly problematic ones up until now.
I've tried many many laptops. Don't remember which ones, but they there the most sock common, you can probably imagine. For example, the last one is a budget acer with a Radeon discreet card or something. No NVIDIA. Installed Lubuntu on it. Absolutely standard installation.
Worked for some while. Then it stopped working. Whenever I booted up the laptop, the screen went black after a second on login screen. Researching for hours and hours did not help to find a solution.Funnily enough, I only installed Lubuntu in the first place, because I tried Debian Stable before that and that one didn't boot at all. It did not work even once. So, I had switched to Lubuntu...
This is one representative example for how those great Linux installations always go in my cases.
Again, this did not happen once or twice. This happens almost every single time I try to install Linux on any normal stock hardware, whatsoever.The only time I had no trouble installing Linux is on my current laptop (tablet, but like a laptop) device. But do you know why? Because I reserched for hours for a device, which fits my needs and is very compatible with Linux. That's why. I had to research tons of hours to find a device, which is actually Linux compatible.
That said, not even this device works fine. Actually, the opposite. It is dangerous to your health. Yeah, I'm not joking, I literally mean it.
One time, I started Firefox on it and the screen started flickering really hard. Couldn't control or fix it.
If my friend would've been there, he would've gotten a seizure 100%, since he has photosensitive epilepsy. Linux is literally dangerous to your health.Windows might be annoying and all... But it doesn't give anyone literal seizures.
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I don't hate US americans but I'll gladly make an exception for you, a well deserved one I must say.
I pity you. I can think of perhaps 2 people I've ever known that I hate. You hate someone who irritates you on social media. You must live a sad, lonely little life.
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I just don't see it. I run it on all my PCs with nvidia, amd, hybrid graphics, pretty much any combination (I have too many
). It works.
Even various friends of mine have tried it on their older setups, no problems there either.Unless you're using something like Debian or whatever with crazy old packages, everything works for the most part. Nvidia is still not great on Wayland but it at least works now.
I'm not saying your experience isn't valid, I'm not trying to gaslight you, but I'm not sure it's representative of the average experience nowadays.
Yeah, I am very familiar with Debian on servers. It works great on servers. Have experienced with all kinds of stability stages regarding Debian.
However, Desktop Debian usually does not work. Then I switch to the one, which should work the easiest, so Ubuntu or some derivative. And this usually still needs tons of troubleshooting over hours to make it work to a minimum standard...
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Lol "the main computer market is iffy"
Historically, yeah. Nowadays (as in the last 2-3 years) I don't really see many issues. It's fairly solid in my experience.
And let's be honest, Windows is a nightmare as well on many laptops. If you wipe them and start from scratch, there is a non zero chance that you'll have to source like half the drivers manually.
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Yeah, I am very familiar with Debian on servers. It works great on servers. Have experienced with all kinds of stability stages regarding Debian.
However, Desktop Debian usually does not work. Then I switch to the one, which should work the easiest, so Ubuntu or some derivative. And this usually still needs tons of troubleshooting over hours to make it work to a minimum standard...
Everything Debian based is an absolute clusterfuck in my experience. I mainly use Fedora or Arch, never had a problem with them.
Every single time I've tried using anything Debian based it's been a shitshow. Maybe that's the source of your issues. -
I've tried many many laptops. Don't remember which ones, but they there the most sock common, you can probably imagine. For example, the last one is a budget acer with a Radeon discreet card or something. No NVIDIA. Installed Lubuntu on it. Absolutely standard installation.
Worked for some while. Then it stopped working. Whenever I booted up the laptop, the screen went black after a second on login screen. Researching for hours and hours did not help to find a solution.Funnily enough, I only installed Lubuntu in the first place, because I tried Debian Stable before that and that one didn't boot at all. It did not work even once. So, I had switched to Lubuntu...
This is one representative example for how those great Linux installations always go in my cases.
Again, this did not happen once or twice. This happens almost every single time I try to install Linux on any normal stock hardware, whatsoever.The only time I had no trouble installing Linux is on my current laptop (tablet, but like a laptop) device. But do you know why? Because I reserched for hours for a device, which fits my needs and is very compatible with Linux. That's why. I had to research tons of hours to find a device, which is actually Linux compatible.
That said, not even this device works fine. Actually, the opposite. It is dangerous to your health. Yeah, I'm not joking, I literally mean it.
One time, I started Firefox on it and the screen started flickering really hard. Couldn't control or fix it.
If my friend would've been there, he would've gotten a seizure 100%, since he has photosensitive epilepsy. Linux is literally dangerous to your health.Windows might be annoying and all... But it doesn't give anyone literal seizures.
Have you tried anything not Debian based?
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Have you tried anything not Debian based?
Well, a very long time ago, I tried plenty of distributions on old hardware and that worked enough, so I could at least boot. But yeah, older hardware was always easier for Linux.
At some point I switched to the ones, which are most likely to succeed. Ubuntu is the biggest one out there and should work the best, with the most support and acceptance across the globe.
If not even Ubuntu works on those devices, then what will work, out of the box?
Besides, Ubuntu has already diverted enough from Debian, that I wouldn't really put them in the same basket, at all, anymore...
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Everything Debian based is an absolute clusterfuck in my experience. I mainly use Fedora or Arch, never had a problem with them.
Every single time I've tried using anything Debian based it's been a shitshow. Maybe that's the source of your issues. -
I pity you. I can think of perhaps 2 people I've ever known that I hate. You hate someone who irritates you on social media. You must live a sad, lonely little life.
Thank you for your pity, I shall bask in your magnanimity henceforth, oh superior one. Thou hast no equal on this space rock.
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You donât have to get rid of all the stuff, it doesnât break the system like missing sounds or whatnot. Some of its even helpful like weather and news. Plus it isnât that hard to make a Microsoft account, donât you need one anyway for Minecraft? And since when do you need drivers for an SSD, donât those usually work out of the box?
Yep exactly, since when do we need a driver for the nvme controller
at least on Linux it works out of the box.
Apps on windows do break the system to some extent by using resources. As a developer I think that KISS is a paramount principle and waste is bad. Account = waste, unneeded 3d viewer = waste, notepad with subscription ad = uber waste. -
This isn't a Windows issue - this is an Office issue
Oh, don't get me started on Windows issues. Lol. But the only reason we use Windows at work is for Office, otherwise Tue CAD software has a Linux version yet runs better.
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Historically, yeah. Nowadays (as in the last 2-3 years) I don't really see many issues. It's fairly solid in my experience.
And let's be honest, Windows is a nightmare as well on many laptops. If you wipe them and start from scratch, there is a non zero chance that you'll have to source like half the drivers manually.
To get to a working state you're very likely to be fine. They're all using Intel wifi and some elan touchpad, so the basics work well enough to bootstrap up to your vendors website.
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As somebody who works in IT at a Windows-only environment, I know exactly what you mean.
I have to fight with Windows on a weekly basis. Driver issues, firmware issues, software crashes/lockups, performance issues, etc etc.
Just this week, I have two users experiencing issues with their monitors. Identical enterprise grade laptops, identical drivers, identical docking stations, all totally up to date on Windows 11. Their old Windows 10 computers worked fine. Still trying to figure out what's wrong.
The Windows 24H2 update broke my Bluetooth audio, the sound is completely messed up and makes the system lag a bit. Uninstalled the update, Bluetooth works. The update automatically installed itself again after a few weeks and broke it again but I can no longer uninstall it for some reason.
