Microsoft dives into the handheld gaming PC wars with the Asus ROG Xbox Ally
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I fail to understand why hardware manufacturers are so afraid of dual track pads and 4 back buttons. Do they think that including these features will reduce sales?
@tiberius @Fubarberry If they put trackpads will scare away many users. The handheld needs to look like a console. Many gamers don't want to go into PC gaming territory so xbox is wrapping this one as a "console".
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They would both have different strengths, so handheld Windows will never snuff out SteamOS when it has a pretty good head start already. Not to mention that any windows handheld will be more expensive than a SteamOS one unless Microsoft is willing to give the license away for free.
SteamOS has had a good start but its not a headstart. Its still a minority OS in the handheld space. Now that you can get a slick UI with good preformance, 100% software compatibility, im failing to see the advantages that will draw windows users onto steam.
Im a linux users so I place a lot of value in the freedom of the ecosystem but most non linux users dont think about that or care. SteamOS needed this win to convince people to leave the microsoft ecosystem and now microsoft has closed the gap.
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SteamOS has had a good start but its not a headstart. Its still a minority OS in the handheld space. Now that you can get a slick UI with good preformance, 100% software compatibility, im failing to see the advantages that will draw windows users onto steam.
Im a linux users so I place a lot of value in the freedom of the ecosystem but most non linux users dont think about that or care. SteamOS needed this win to convince people to leave the microsoft ecosystem and now microsoft has closed the gap.
Steam Deck sold about 3.7 million units, while the handheld PCs have sold around 6 million since the Steam Deck was launched. I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound like a minority to me unless you're counting the Switch, as well.
However, neither this Xbox handheld and the Steam Deck will be able to even compare to the volume being sold by Nintendo, so what's the point of even including it in this comparison? We might as well include Android gaming in that comparison, then, which should dwarf everything else by comparison.
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Conversely I bought a Steam Deck specifically because of the trackpads but I find I only ever use them on the rare occasion that I need to go to desktop mode. I love my Deck but I've discovered that could easily live without the trackpads if they weren't there.
I can't and won't play any first person perspective game with a regular controller. Track pad + gyro is so much fun! It love to at least see capacitive touch sticks + gyro adopted by other manufacturers.
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So... if this device does not come with some kind of even more locked down than normal bootloader/uefi/tpm system...
We know that SteamOS is roughly 15% faster at running games, 15% more fps in a same for same hardware and game settings comparison.
They say its running a stripped down (aka debloated) version of Win 11, but frankly, I call bullshit.
Sure, it may take a bit for proper driver support to be developed for the new Z2 apus... but uh...
You can just buy this thing, wipe out windows, flash SteamOS or Bazzite onto it, and get more FPS, and now you basically exist in the SteamOS ecosystem (or also GOG or whatever).
At that point, MSFT has functionally built a product that will be used on their competitor's ecosystem... when the whole point of this thing is to keep people in the Xbox ecosystem.
Uh, also... does this thing come with CoPilot?
Is it just gonna be or at least be capable of ... snapping automatic acreen grabs of everything you are doing, all the time?
Also, don't forget to keep paying for Xbox
LiveGamepass... for the privelege... of all of this?They also seem to be pivoting towards trying to make "Xbox PC" something to replace Steam (see the end of the Super Meat Boy 3d trailer).
I wouldn't be surprised if they try and lock out developers from putting games on Steam and being exclusive to "Xbox PC".
Worked so well for Xbox Live for Windows...
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Steam Deck sold about 3.7 million units, while the handheld PCs have sold around 6 million since the Steam Deck was launched. I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound like a minority to me unless you're counting the Switch, as well.
However, neither this Xbox handheld and the Steam Deck will be able to even compare to the volume being sold by Nintendo, so what's the point of even including it in this comparison? We might as well include Android gaming in that comparison, then, which should dwarf everything else by comparison.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Fizz was comparing SteamOS vs Windows market share, which SteamOS/Linux is just 2.69% compared to windows, now with new windows for handhelds there’s a risk that Microsoft could further solidify its monopoly in the PC ecosystem. This development could pose a significant challenge to Valve’s efforts to compete with SteamOS/Linux, potentially stifling its growth in the handheld gaming space.
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Fizz was comparing SteamOS vs Windows market share, which SteamOS/Linux is just 2.69% compared to windows, now with new windows for handhelds there’s a risk that Microsoft could further solidify its monopoly in the PC ecosystem. This development could pose a significant challenge to Valve’s efforts to compete with SteamOS/Linux, potentially stifling its growth in the handheld gaming space.
Bro, he said a minority in the handheld space. Why would you use the number that included everything that is not handheld?
Competition in the handheld gaming device is good. Why would we want another category where Valve has a monopoly in?
I doubt Microsoft has what it takes to completely overcome Linux's advantages, and the competition will not stifle SteamOS's growth because it is a growing market. Both handheld OS can occupy its own niche that they are good at.
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So... if this device does not come with some kind of even more locked down than normal bootloader/uefi/tpm system...
We know that SteamOS is roughly 15% faster at running games, 15% more fps in a same for same hardware and game settings comparison.
They say its running a stripped down (aka debloated) version of Win 11, but frankly, I call bullshit.
Sure, it may take a bit for proper driver support to be developed for the new Z2 apus... but uh...
You can just buy this thing, wipe out windows, flash SteamOS or Bazzite onto it, and get more FPS, and now you basically exist in the SteamOS ecosystem (or also GOG or whatever).
At that point, MSFT has functionally built a product that will be used on their competitor's ecosystem... when the whole point of this thing is to keep people in the Xbox ecosystem.
Uh, also... does this thing come with CoPilot?
Is it just gonna be or at least be capable of ... snapping automatic acreen grabs of everything you are doing, all the time?
Also, don't forget to keep paying for Xbox
LiveGamepass... for the privelege... of all of this?I dunno, I kind of believe them when they claim they seriously debloated Windows. I bet they actually used SteamOS benchmarks to sway the higher ups to be allowed to do this. It will be interesting to see benchmarks when this thing is released.
Although I also believe that they would lock down the bootloader. And not release this mode to the general public. They haven't been very lenient with the media people testing these things. They weren't even allowed make their own videos of the interface or games running on them.
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Mainly I use them for more keybindings but they are essential for that.
It's so cool to play the old X-Wing and TIE Fighter games and be able to control them with some custom HUDs.
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This will probably be the biggest competition the Steam Deck has within the handheld PC space.
Most noteworthy is that windows is finally focusing on providing a decent handheld experience, including booting straight to a controller friendly interface, and reducing background processes for better fps and battery.
Edit: The handheld Xbox UI will.come to all windows PCs, but it's not clear if the reduced performance bloat version will be available. It sounds like only Xbox branded devices may get the full benefit of optimized windows.
It's also the ugliest handheld PC yet (imo), but I can appreciate that they're pushing for comfort over looks.
7" non-OLED screen is a hard no from me, regardless of everything else.
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I dunno, I kind of believe them when they claim they seriously debloated Windows. I bet they actually used SteamOS benchmarks to sway the higher ups to be allowed to do this. It will be interesting to see benchmarks when this thing is released.
Although I also believe that they would lock down the bootloader. And not release this mode to the general public. They haven't been very lenient with the media people testing these things. They weren't even allowed make their own videos of the interface or games running on them.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]I mean, I can't of course prove anything, but uh.
I used to work for MSFT.
I very much doubt thet are capable of meaningfully streamlining Windows.
And uh also no, no, the SteamOS Benchmarks came out less than a week before this announcement.
This announcement means they have been working on this project for a year or so, at least, and just haven't publically mentioned anything definitive untill now.
They already have the whole thing designed and agreements worked out with all the mfg partners involved.
You don't do a public announcement for a release in a few months unless you've got the assembly line and logistics systems in place ready to start cranking these things out after maybe a few more weeks of minor touchups.
You don't just have a single big meeting and then BLAM! That is not how this works.
Most likely, around the time the SteamDeck OLED came out, as in you can buy one now, came out... thats around the time MSFT had at least some higher ups and teams start brainstorming making their own, and then at some point about a year ago, they decided to actually do it.
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I mean, I can't of course prove anything, but uh.
I used to work for MSFT.
I very much doubt thet are capable of meaningfully streamlining Windows.
And uh also no, no, the SteamOS Benchmarks came out less than a week before this announcement.
This announcement means they have been working on this project for a year or so, at least, and just haven't publically mentioned anything definitive untill now.
They already have the whole thing designed and agreements worked out with all the mfg partners involved.
You don't do a public announcement for a release in a few months unless you've got the assembly line and logistics systems in place ready to start cranking these things out after maybe a few more weeks of minor touchups.
You don't just have a single big meeting and then BLAM! That is not how this works.
Most likely, around the time the SteamDeck OLED came out, as in you can buy one now, came out... thats around the time MSFT had at least some higher ups and teams start brainstorming making their own, and then at some point about a year ago, they decided to actually do it.
And uh also no, no, the SteamOS Benchmarks came out less than a week before this announcement.
I meant that they maybe used SteamOS (or a similar distribution) on whatever prototype they had to make some benchmarks to compare against stock Windows or their own Windows build.
But you seem to have better insight into the way they work.
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And uh also no, no, the SteamOS Benchmarks came out less than a week before this announcement.
I meant that they maybe used SteamOS (or a similar distribution) on whatever prototype they had to make some benchmarks to compare against stock Windows or their own Windows build.
But you seem to have better insight into the way they work.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Sorry, I edited in more details after you replied.
But uh yeah, as you yourself have said... MSFT is very good at being secretive and opaque... even internally, there is a massive culture of compartmentalizing information, to say nothing of outward facing info.
I would say that untill independent reviewers get their hands on these things to do teardowns and benchmarks, trust nothing, all their claims are just marketing BS.
Im not saying this version of Windows won't be better than mainline Windows, in terms of game performance.
I am saying I'll eat a sock if it ends up being even as efficient as SteamOS or Bazzite in a same hardware same game same settings frame rate test of 20ish modern games.
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It's so cool to play the old X-Wing and TIE Fighter games and be able to control them with some custom HUDs.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]The cyberpunk thing is, if we were actually fighting in a resistance and you needed to practice flying TIE Fighters to know how to steal one or fight against them, you would probably be playing an emulator of an outdated but still very good empire TIE fighter simulator on a third party device
Rebel af
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This will probably be the biggest competition the Steam Deck has within the handheld PC space.
Most noteworthy is that windows is finally focusing on providing a decent handheld experience, including booting straight to a controller friendly interface, and reducing background processes for better fps and battery.
Edit: The handheld Xbox UI will.come to all windows PCs, but it's not clear if the reduced performance bloat version will be available. It sounds like only Xbox branded devices may get the full benefit of optimized windows.
It's also the ugliest handheld PC yet (imo), but I can appreciate that they're pushing for comfort over looks.
Microsoft has no integrity left. I'm all for competition. If you have an xbox and this is as friendly a combination as the deck is to a bazzite/any Linux really and the Ally is what you choose, fuck yeah get your game on. For me, I'll never trust any Microsoft product.
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I can't and won't play any first person perspective game with a regular controller. Track pad + gyro is so much fun! It love to at least see capacitive touch sticks + gyro adopted by other manufacturers.
I tried so hard to make that combo work for me, but ended up back with the sticks. Maybe I need to try something other than Half-Life 2.
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@tiberius @Fubarberry If they put trackpads will scare away many users. The handheld needs to look like a console. Many gamers don't want to go into PC gaming territory so xbox is wrapping this one as a "console".
What an impressive way to dismiss the behaviors of others as "fear". And in the face of no data even. So brave!
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7" non-OLED screen is a hard no from me, regardless of everything else.
Tell that to Nintendo and their fans.
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The cyberpunk thing is, if we were actually fighting in a resistance and you needed to practice flying TIE Fighters to know how to steal one or fight against them, you would probably be playing an emulator of an outdated but still very good empire TIE fighter simulator on a third party device
Rebel af
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Its much more real than you think.
... What do you think an FPV aerial drone control set up looks like?
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Apparently, the way they're doing it now is that many of the drones just have an unwinding spool of fiber optic cabling, instead of being wireless...
Because you can't jam that, can't hijack it.
So... kinda like a TOW missile.
Also... thats why it was called Operation Spider's Web.
Gossamer strands, mile and miles long.
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I can't and won't play any first person perspective game with a regular controller. Track pad + gyro is so much fun! It love to at least see capacitive touch sticks + gyro adopted by other manufacturers.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]I end up using the stick for movement, the pad for aiming.
And, due to a hand/wrist injury... switched the aiming to the left pad, and movement to the right stick, and then the right trigger is still fire, and the right track pad is a 4 way gated set of 'buttons'.
In desktop, ive got the left pad moving the mouse, up click on the right pad is left click, down click on the right pad is right click... and then any kind of click on the left pad is screen zoom.
Yep, its weird, but I love it lol.
The only thing they could improve, at this point, imo... is a way to adjust the left right up down sizes of the zones for the edge scrolling to work on a pad.
It works perfectly when you point your finger at it at a perpendicular angle, but with a thumb, the surface area of the thumb makes contact over a different shape, so thats why theres so many reports of edge scrolling 'not working' for people with certain sized/shaped thumbs and grips.
