Germany issues warning for transgender & nonbinary people traveling to the U.S.
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Not only do these people fail as allies and as compassionate human beings, but they're also very stupid if they don't see that defending trans rights is the front line of the fight against fascism right now. They're not going to stop at taking rights away from trans people. It'll be you next.
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Start accepting American LGBT refugees then.
Boy never in my life I would have thought about political refugees coming from the US to Germany.
Yesterday someone said to me that we're living in a South Park episode that became reality... I think he's right...
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Sure, but your comment is implying it’s an all or nothing situation. Walking back is walking back and nothing else matters.
There’s are multitudes of trans issues, and questioning one does not mean you are questioning all of them.
If somebody thinks people born male shouldn’t be competing in non rec league sports against people born female, that doesn’t mean they should be treated the same as people that want to ban drag shows and ban accepting lgbt children and all the other blatant bigotry coming from the MAGA cult.
If you can’t accept the nuance in the conversations then there will be no conversation.
What conversation do you want exactly?
If you want to pretend there is nuance you will be fully aware that the evidence that supposedly supports banning trans athletes, which is an initial step of control used to further limit transgender people by e.g. preventing them for entering the country, are meta studies based on comparisons of cisgender men and cisgender women, right?
There isn't a nuanced debate to be had and I'm sick of pretending that people like myself who just want to live our lives are a subject for debate.
So yes, worrying about 10 out of 500,000 athletes when there isn't clear evidence of an advantage is bigoted and not calling that out leads to situations where conservatives and the far right try to introduce bills like that which was recently struck down (thankfully) in Montana.
Now, question for you - why is it so important to you that a minority of people should have their basic humanity and ability to participate in society be questioned in the way that transgender people are? Why do you support that? Why do you consider that to be an okay thing to do, when the consequences of allowing it are so plain to see?
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Ok, but what if you are not giving into demands, but stating your feelings that just happen to align, in that one area, with the right?
My point is that Trans issues have many different areas. Saying they’re wrong in one area does not mean you are abandoning trans people entirely and just as bad as the bigots that want harm done to them.
Just want to say, I don’t know all of what Newson has said, just read some articles that had 2 or 3 quotes. It’s hard to know what his overall opinions are, though.
I honestly cannot fathom how you can be looking at the situation of the US currently and not realising how wedge issues based on lies and bigotry work and the absolutely deletrious effect it is having on minorities.
I suppose you'll still be equivocating and making excuses when it's gone past travel bans (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/marco-rubio-state-transgender-visa-b2704734.html), erasure of LGBT literature (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/banned-books-lgbtq-transgender-black-people-of-color-pen-america-rcna193879), banning of social and medical transition (https://www.hrc.org/resources/attacks-on-gender-affirming-care-by-state-map, https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/government/texas-not-for-freedom-house-bill-could-ban-gender-affirming-care-for-transgender-adults/ar-AA1AjTF5), the creation of specific crimes for the existence of transgender people (https://msmagazine.com/2025/03/03/montana-hb-446-criminalizes-trans-existence-social-contagion/), the removal of protections in law (https://www.hrw.org/news/2025/01/23/trump-administration-moves-reject-transgender-identity-rights) and we're in camps waiting to be "purified".
Why are you falling for wedge issues that are designed to wipe out a group of people in a way that absolutely parallels actions taken by Nazis? Is a discussion about 10 athletes out of hundreds of thousands that important?
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"Glory to Aristotska! Papers, please."
LYRICS:
Arstotzka, Arstotzka greatest country in the world.
If you want to get in
you will need to bring your papers
and your passport.If you forge, if you lie, if you cheat you will be detained.
You can not, I repeat, you can not
fool us here on post.
Next.Arstotzka, Arstotzka better than Kolechia.
They are stupid and foolish and silly little rats.
Filthy rats.
We have tanks, we have bombs, we have guns
we have glory too.
There is no cowardly enemy that can bother us.
Boom.Arstotzka, Arstotzka medicine is best in world.
If you're sick, if you sneeze, or you need another heart.
Or a lung.
We have doctors who will make you feel almost no pain.
If you scream, then they know that you are very much alive.
Ouch.Arstotzka, Arstotzka have best football team in world.
They kick balls, they kick arse, they kick everything you see.
They are great.
They can run, they can jump, they can score so many goals,
other teams should despair, there is no true hope to win.
Goal!Arstotzka, Arstotzka have best apartments in the world.
They are big, they are grey, they are square and glorious.
So great.
You can eat, you can sleep, you can even just relax
and watch all the other countries be really jealous.
Ha-ha.Arstotzka, Arstotzka economy is best in world.
Every man, every month can afford to eat one loaf.
Mmm, bread.
Our industry is heaviest in world
we melt steel, we burn coal, we make air look really cool.Glory to Arstotzka.
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Boy never in my life I would have thought about political refugees coming from the US to Germany.
Yesterday someone said to me that we're living in a South Park episode that became reality... I think he's right...
Even South Park isn't this wacky. They had to scrap and remake an episode after the 2016 election because it was completely baffling to them that Trump won.
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It's honestly disappointing to see these sorts of expressions stated here on Lemmy. It was the shitty, uninformed, "I don't care for the science or data", reactionary right wing views that contributed to me leaving Reddit and here we are again.
I suppose continuing to dehumanise trans folk with the most important issue being a tiny number of trans people competing in a subset of activities, that are inherently unfair, is so much more important than avoiding demicide.
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Ok, but what if you are not giving into demands, but stating your feelings that just happen to align, in that one area, with the right?
My point is that Trans issues have many different areas. Saying they’re wrong in one area does not mean you are abandoning trans people entirely and just as bad as the bigots that want harm done to them.
Just want to say, I don’t know all of what Newson has said, just read some articles that had 2 or 3 quotes. It’s hard to know what his overall opinions are, though.
The thing is you don't align with the far right. At least I hope you don't anyway. The far right either hate trans people, or they do not give a shit about them either way. They are using trans people as a political football to sow exactly this type of division. Yes, trans people in sport is an unresolved problem. No, I do not want the right wing to be the ones to resolve it. If you align superficially, you still don't want to cede to them. Bear in mind "align" only guess as far as saying "we can agree about this one sentence", not this whole issue
Godwin's law is fucked these days so let's just use the third Reich as an analogy. You may agree that Germany has a legitimate territorial claim on Alsace-Lorraine. Does that mean you should let the Nazis take it? No, you fight them and then resolve it when someone more reasonable is asking. The reasons why should be obvious, and so should the analogy. It's not about whether the extremely superficial claim is "correct", it's about why they are saying it and what they plan to do if they get enough people to agree with them. -
LYRICS:
Arstotzka, Arstotzka greatest country in the world.
If you want to get in
you will need to bring your papers
and your passport.If you forge, if you lie, if you cheat you will be detained.
You can not, I repeat, you can not
fool us here on post.
Next.Arstotzka, Arstotzka better than Kolechia.
They are stupid and foolish and silly little rats.
Filthy rats.
We have tanks, we have bombs, we have guns
we have glory too.
There is no cowardly enemy that can bother us.
Boom.Arstotzka, Arstotzka medicine is best in world.
If you're sick, if you sneeze, or you need another heart.
Or a lung.
We have doctors who will make you feel almost no pain.
If you scream, then they know that you are very much alive.
Ouch.Arstotzka, Arstotzka have best football team in world.
They kick balls, they kick arse, they kick everything you see.
They are great.
They can run, they can jump, they can score so many goals,
other teams should despair, there is no true hope to win.
Goal!Arstotzka, Arstotzka have best apartments in the world.
They are big, they are grey, they are square and glorious.
So great.
You can eat, you can sleep, you can even just relax
and watch all the other countries be really jealous.
Ha-ha.Arstotzka, Arstotzka economy is best in world.
Every man, every month can afford to eat one loaf.
Mmm, bread.
Our industry is heaviest in world
we melt steel, we burn coal, we make air look really cool.Glory to Arstotzka.
Haha, thanks for this!
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Yeah, as much as I'd love to see some of the national parks, I'll never travel there unless their entry procedures and government change fundamentally. Plenty of other countries to visit.
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The thing is you don't align with the far right. At least I hope you don't anyway. The far right either hate trans people, or they do not give a shit about them either way. They are using trans people as a political football to sow exactly this type of division. Yes, trans people in sport is an unresolved problem. No, I do not want the right wing to be the ones to resolve it. If you align superficially, you still don't want to cede to them. Bear in mind "align" only guess as far as saying "we can agree about this one sentence", not this whole issue
Godwin's law is fucked these days so let's just use the third Reich as an analogy. You may agree that Germany has a legitimate territorial claim on Alsace-Lorraine. Does that mean you should let the Nazis take it? No, you fight them and then resolve it when someone more reasonable is asking. The reasons why should be obvious, and so should the analogy. It's not about whether the extremely superficial claim is "correct", it's about why they are saying it and what they plan to do if they get enough people to agree with them.Thank you for making this post.
You've outlined exactly why allowing the far right to resolve perceived social issues isn't the way forward, especially when it comes to any sort of "minority" (which seems to be anything that isn't non-immigrant white Christian cis straight men) issues.
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Start accepting American LGBT refugees then.
You do not want to be a refugee here trust me
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Thank you for making this post.
You've outlined exactly why allowing the far right to resolve perceived social issues isn't the way forward, especially when it comes to any sort of "minority" (which seems to be anything that isn't non-immigrant white Christian cis straight men) issues.
Thanks for saying so, I'm glad that the message came across.
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This post did not contain any content.
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And no, this isn’t just about wanting to be called a woman.
Sorry, the censorship says otherwise. You may be speaking for yourself, but the movement at large wants to control how people see others.
Isn't it good we have experts like you to tell trans people they don't know what the trans rights movement is about?
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Also to add, there is an unfortunate number of Liberals who are quickly walking back any support for trans folk.
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Yeah, as much as I'd love to see some of the national parks, I'll never travel there unless their entry procedures and government change fundamentally. Plenty of other countries to visit.
As an American one of the prettiest places I have ever been is Banff, in Canada.
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Yeah, as much as I'd love to see some of the national parks, I'll never travel there unless their entry procedures and government change fundamentally. Plenty of other countries to visit.
Come to Canada instead. We got really nice parks too. And they tend to be less Disneyfied.
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What conversation do you want exactly?
If you want to pretend there is nuance you will be fully aware that the evidence that supposedly supports banning trans athletes, which is an initial step of control used to further limit transgender people by e.g. preventing them for entering the country, are meta studies based on comparisons of cisgender men and cisgender women, right?
There isn't a nuanced debate to be had and I'm sick of pretending that people like myself who just want to live our lives are a subject for debate.
So yes, worrying about 10 out of 500,000 athletes when there isn't clear evidence of an advantage is bigoted and not calling that out leads to situations where conservatives and the far right try to introduce bills like that which was recently struck down (thankfully) in Montana.
Now, question for you - why is it so important to you that a minority of people should have their basic humanity and ability to participate in society be questioned in the way that transgender people are? Why do you support that? Why do you consider that to be an okay thing to do, when the consequences of allowing it are so plain to see?
Well, this is a conversation for sure. Brushing somebody off that doesn’t have the same experience as you is no way to keep people on your side.
I honestly have never heard of a study on trans athletes, so I don’t even know what you’re referring to. And if you’re saying there are biological differences between cisgender people and trans people, this is not an argument I have ever heard and is the exact example of nuance in the conversation I was referring to.
So, here’s my thinking if you are open to hearing it. I am a very liberal and compassionate person. I have always been. I absolutely support trans people, and if one of my children came out as trans I would be happy for them and support them. The hate that comes from republicans towards trans people (even children) disgusts me. But I have never understood the debate on athletics.
First, if you’re saying that legislation is largely unnecessary because the governing bodies of the sports leagues are already handling it, I totally agree. Those legislations are more about pointing a finger at trans people and shaming them than it is about protecting young athletes.
Second, you phrase it as “banning trans athletes”. This sounds different than the debate I have heard. There are plenty of rec leagues or clubs where your sex/gender shouldn’t come into play. And other leagues just depend on sex, not gender identification. Nobody should be saying a trans woman can’t play in a “male” league.
Now, it seems like you’re saying people born male should be allowed to compete in any competitive league according to their gender. This is where I disagree (and the governing bodies of the leagues should enforce this).
It seems like there are thousands of years of evidence that people born male have an athletic advantage over people born female. This is the entire reason male and female sports have always been separated. For you to say there is no evidence of an advantage goes counter to what seems obvious.
If I had a daughter that was in a competitive sport, I would be upset if she was losing to somebody that had obvious biological advantages of being born male (size, strength, etc).
With all that said, when I hear somebody like Newsom bring up the athletics debate then I hear somebody say liberals are “walking back any support for trans folk”, I feel like this is just throwing the baby out with the bath water. I don’t know if Newsom had other negative things to say about Trans people, which is mostly why I asked the question initially.
