How can progressive "European patriots" protect Europe from the right-populists who want to destroy Europe as we know it?
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The thing you should take from this, is that when you keep antagonising people, they will hate you.
I have no problem with people hating me, there's some people I hate. if you expect everyone to love you in live you're kind of naive or have no opinion whatsoever
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There's a lot of people, at least online, that do not want to engage with the other.
For right wingers it's "lazy/snobby".
For left wingers it's "fascist/nazi/supremacist".
Those ad hominems derail the argumentation and worsen communication.
i'm not talking about the politicians, but the voters.
With social media it has been enlarged. Everyone goes to their own bubble and when someone shares a wrong thought, then that person gets removed from the bubble.
Sorry what..? The US is quite literally taken over by fascists and fascist ideas and you claim that the biggest issue is that someone calls that out?
Also, your original claim was this:
Their left wing tries to dehumanise their right wing.
Seems like you moved the goal post. Calling someone fascist is not dehumanizing, especially when they actually support fascist ideas.
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100% unconditional intolerance for fascists. You can’t give them a millimeter or they’ll take the entire country.
I suggest watching Thought Slime’s recent video if you wish to know how to effectively counteract fascists.
The gist is that you shouldn’t try to argue with them, they don’t care about reality. Don’t let them look reasonable by arguing as if they were, insist on pointing out they’re being assholes (which they are) and that anything they suggest is so obviously wrong it doesn’t even need to be explained why it’s wrong (which is true).
This is quite literally the opposite of how you actually get people to support your cause. Ask any psychologist.
Shutting them out completely might work fine when they're a tiny minority, but when in some cases a quarter of the population agrees with them enough to vote for them, doing that is simply impossible. They will have reach.
I also still think we need people throwing their morals about manipulating people to the wind and starting to peddle left wing conspiracy theories just like the right wingers are doing. For example with how perfectly it fits there really should be an actual movement behind the whole trump=the biblical antichrist thing in the US, but I've only seen it as satire in spaces that are already left wing.
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Sorry what..? The US is quite literally taken over by fascists and fascist ideas and you claim that the biggest issue is that someone calls that out?
Also, your original claim was this:
Their left wing tries to dehumanise their right wing.
Seems like you moved the goal post. Calling someone fascist is not dehumanizing, especially when they actually support fascist ideas.
So 50% of USA are fascists/nazi/...
Must be weird walking on the street then
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I have no problem with people hating me, there's some people I hate. if you expect everyone to love you in live you're kind of naive or have no opinion whatsoever
That's polarisation, buddy
The opposite of trying to communicate.
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Facotries, houses and even companies can not be easily moved. Even something like a bank needs employees, with certain skills and those have value. You usually can not just move those to another country, unless something really drastic happens.
The other part is to organize. Something like the minimum company tax is a really good starting point. Most large countries have relativly high taxes anyway. The only reason tax heavens work is, because they have a tiny population and the few hundret jobs created by the paperwork are enough to support them. They could easily be bullied into having normal taxes.
Also keep in mind the EU has 1/5 of the global economy by itself.
USA has 6,5% tax on capital EU 20%.
We attract capital because we offer stability.
Taxing the shit out of their made investments does not offer stability. They'd stop putting in new investments.
We'd have decay.
USA is the capital of the world when it comes to capitalism. A world ETF market weighted gives you 60% USA. That's massive.
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Sorry what..? The US is quite literally taken over by fascists and fascist ideas and you claim that the biggest issue is that someone calls that out?
Also, your original claim was this:
Their left wing tries to dehumanise their right wing.
Seems like you moved the goal post. Calling someone fascist is not dehumanizing, especially when they actually support fascist ideas.
He also blatantly disregarded data I linked that disproves his point.
He is not arguing in good faith, at all.
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100% unconditional intolerance for fascists. You can’t give them a millimeter or they’ll take the entire country.
I suggest watching Thought Slime’s recent video if you wish to know how to effectively counteract fascists.
The gist is that you shouldn’t try to argue with them, they don’t care about reality. Don’t let them look reasonable by arguing as if they were, insist on pointing out they’re being assholes (which they are) and that anything they suggest is so obviously wrong it doesn’t even need to be explained why it’s wrong (which is true).
I have a rule: I don't pronounce the word fascist (in private or in public, I don't care) without prefixing it with "lurid" in English and in Italian appending "di merda" after fascista/i.
As someone who had nightmares at night about them, given the testimony of my grandmother, I feel that not qualifying fascist people is somehow working in their favor.The day I will see a politician using that rule in a TV interview I will know that we have again a chance.
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Push for more european countries to pass proportional representation to strengthen their state stability and democracy.
The countries that have some form of pr are coloured:
Propotional representation? As in party lists? How much country needs it to be marked?
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Propotional representation? As in party lists? How much country needs it to be marked?
Most countries use party lists, some mixed member proportional and Ireland uses the single transferable vote.
I’m not sure I understand your question. I would say every country should receive some form of pr as democracies are more fair and peaceful.
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Most countries use party lists, some mixed member proportional and Ireland uses the single transferable vote.
I’m not sure I understand your question. I would say every country should receive some form of pr as democracies are more fair and peaceful.
In Russia gosduma is mixed member proportional. 50% parties, 50% districts.
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This is quite literally the opposite of how you actually get people to support your cause. Ask any psychologist.
Shutting them out completely might work fine when they're a tiny minority, but when in some cases a quarter of the population agrees with them enough to vote for them, doing that is simply impossible. They will have reach.
I also still think we need people throwing their morals about manipulating people to the wind and starting to peddle left wing conspiracy theories just like the right wingers are doing. For example with how perfectly it fits there really should be an actual movement behind the whole trump=the biblical antichrist thing in the US, but I've only seen it as satire in spaces that are already left wing.
If 75 percent block together, 25 permanent can be blocked. The rest is limited. If you legitimate them through participation, you risk them being seen more acceptable a reasonable option.
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You do pay taxes in the EU if you own assets in the EU.
China taxes quite a lot less than the EU I'm sure. Otherwise nobody would have built their factories there.
The CCP is special. It's politicking very much takes it's people's happiness (or the people perceived happiness) into account.
Also While they do allow the whole weath inequality gap to increase, they very much control the wealthy, instead of having it the other way around.
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Why would they invest in your apartment if they have to pay taxes on it? Unless they can charge the tax to you as well.
You're going to need the public to build your apartment. And sadly, in Singapore where this is the case, rent is ridiculously high.
Lower revenues for residential property means lower prices for land. It means lower prices for buying houses and makes it cheaper for people to own their house or flat. If you are a developer that builds properties, you sell them to individual owners that live there instead of institutional investors like corporations or real estate funds. Wealth tax only applies for people that own big estates. When done well it does not apply to people that own their own property or rent out a few flats.
That way, super rich people that look for investment opportunities for their enormous wealth make less profit with real estate and move towards other assets. Land owners (who are usually really wealthy themselves) and large investors are the only losers here, and that's exactly the intention.
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That is what I wonder. Don't know about you guys, but I feel like a European patriot, even though this maybe does not make sense to some.
Being a true European patriot means to me is caring about our freedom and democracies, is to value the open pluralist societies we developed since WW2, wanting to protect what the reactionaries want to take away from us all and want to lock us all up, back in small closed-minded nation-states we all come from, which will ultimately lick the boots of either US or China/Russia.
They are well organized, but what is the organization, the movement that fights against this ongoing attack on our shared values and mode of existence?
The post-WW2 Europe is an oasis of bliss in a world which is on fire, and we are all under attack. How can we fight against this destruction from the inside as well as from the outside ?
Fight hunger, fight drug addiction, fight the destruction of the European values. If you want to destroy something then you have to pinpoint a target that can be destroyed. "Destruction from the inside" is not a target.
However, do you really want to destroy something or don't you rather want to build something?
It doesn't come with the thrill of fear, but uniting people to build something is more sustainable.
In any case, take a close look and check if the oasis is not already burning or even spreading fire all over the world.
If you choose construction, make sure that the values you are going to implement are consistent and operational. Progressive means nothing but promising everybody that the world will develop according to the progess they envision. That won't happen. There can only be one direction.
My personal opinion is that Pluralism makes it difficult to unite people. People follow their leaders. If the idea would be enough, this post would explode, there would be discussions until people agreed on what to do and then do it. In a pluralist society you have to convince all leaders, and they have to agree to get active at the same time.
So start with finding the leaders and let them convince their communities.
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That is what I wonder. Don't know about you guys, but I feel like a European patriot, even though this maybe does not make sense to some.
Being a true European patriot means to me is caring about our freedom and democracies, is to value the open pluralist societies we developed since WW2, wanting to protect what the reactionaries want to take away from us all and want to lock us all up, back in small closed-minded nation-states we all come from, which will ultimately lick the boots of either US or China/Russia.
They are well organized, but what is the organization, the movement that fights against this ongoing attack on our shared values and mode of existence?
The post-WW2 Europe is an oasis of bliss in a world which is on fire, and we are all under attack. How can we fight against this destruction from the inside as well as from the outside ?
Being a patriot is quite dumb if I may say so. And even dumber if you are a patriot for a imperialist and neoliberal organisation that even compared to a so-called liberal "democracy" is undemocratic. Instead of calling yourself a patriot you should read a book. And then call yourself something based on that.
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Fix wealth inequality. Rich people accumulate so much money that there's hardly any left for average people. Rich people hoard assets like houses and increase their prices and the cost of living. As long as we don't fix this, things will get worse. As long as politicians don't fix this other parties will get more popular no matter what they offer.
Migrants are just scapegoats. They have no lobby, they are easy to blame. They are one piece in a bigger equation. They are used as a ruse to distract from bigger problems. If the housing market was functional it could handle the influx of Ukranian refugees and the way smaller number of refugees from countries like Afghanistan or regions like Africa.
If countries had funds from wealth and inheritance taxes they could fund a working administration, faster justice systems, working infrastructure and so on. It would be absolutely beautiful and I cannot say why there isn't a bigger movement for that solution.
It's not about taxing 100.000€ in stock, or you inheriting your mum's cottage, but about taxing people who have been living off intergenerational wealth for decades without ever working at all.
That's quite reformist. But I would agree. It would be an ok step to start constructing a socialist state.
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Fight hunger, fight drug addiction, fight the destruction of the European values. If you want to destroy something then you have to pinpoint a target that can be destroyed. "Destruction from the inside" is not a target.
However, do you really want to destroy something or don't you rather want to build something?
It doesn't come with the thrill of fear, but uniting people to build something is more sustainable.
In any case, take a close look and check if the oasis is not already burning or even spreading fire all over the world.
If you choose construction, make sure that the values you are going to implement are consistent and operational. Progressive means nothing but promising everybody that the world will develop according to the progess they envision. That won't happen. There can only be one direction.
My personal opinion is that Pluralism makes it difficult to unite people. People follow their leaders. If the idea would be enough, this post would explode, there would be discussions until people agreed on what to do and then do it. In a pluralist society you have to convince all leaders, and they have to agree to get active at the same time.
So start with finding the leaders and let them convince their communities.
Good Points in general. But where did you read about me wanting to destroy something? The only thing I actively think we need to destroy is fascism and imbalance of power, which is slowly corrupting everything like mold.
Pluralistic democracy in that regard is a more abstract concept than a concrete agenda and it is hard to unite people for such an abstract value. This value should only be a proxy value for other concrete outcomes/values, ideally. But let's turn it around. Only because it's free and democratic does not guarantee it is effective and doing good. But without it, there will be no chance for good outcomes.
I agree with your general message, it probably would be better to have a cause "for" something good and not against something bad. Only sadly it seems that in practice people are easier to unite against something or out of fear of something.
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Being a patriot is quite dumb if I may say so. And even dumber if you are a patriot for a imperialist and neoliberal organisation that even compared to a so-called liberal "democracy" is undemocratic. Instead of calling yourself a patriot you should read a book. And then call yourself something based on that.
Are you one of those "tankies" everyone is talking about here on Lemmy?
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Being a patriot is quite dumb if I may say so. And even dumber if you are a patriot for a imperialist and neoliberal organisation that even compared to a so-called liberal "democracy" is undemocratic. Instead of calling yourself a patriot you should read a book. And then call yourself something based on that.
By the way, nice username. I got some of these recently.
