Greta Thunberg departs Israel on flight to Paris after detention aboard aid ship
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Yeah it's real typical for kidnappings to be publicly known, announced in advance and then the victim safetly returned promptly, entirely unharmed. Im sure you can fram it as a kidnapping with some backflips, but you just look like a whiny child.
She was captured and held unlawfully sure, but if it was actually for humanitarian aid and not self publicity, i might have some sympathy.So if somali pirates would just take the ship and send the crew back home it would all be good?
You're having an interesting opinion here.
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Where are all the people telling me she was goinf to be tortured and killed now?
Public attention from them and others is why she’s being gently handled. You should thank those who raised the alarm on her behalf, not Israel.
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So if somali pirates would just take the ship and send the crew back home it would all be good?
You're having an interesting opinion here.
Inequivalent.
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When the UN doesn’t stop the Israeli’s from declaring it a conflict zone. It’s technically not kidnapping. Just like how the US abducted people in Iraq and Afghanistan.
No. They never entered anywhere Israel is legally allowed to exclude even in war It being full of aid and verifiable non combatants.
It's kidnapping.
Just like how the US abducted people in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Your example is also kidnapping but even excluding that bit of nuance the key word is "in" they never entered territorial waters and thus were never "in" Israel or Palestine. Israel can declare 1500mi of the coast of Somalia an exclusion zone then kidnap people there and that would make just as much sense in a legal view.
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Cute idea. But unfortunately not practical. For something as valuable/kg as cocaine, you can go to the trouble of using a narco sub. But there's zero chance such a sub could practically carry cheap bulky goods like flour, rice, etc.
You might be able to use them to smuggle in medicines though.
So then don't carry flour and rice, go with pemmican or something similar, high protein, high caloric, high density food.
A brick of pemmican is better than nothing, which is what they currently have.
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No. They never entered anywhere Israel is legally allowed to exclude even in war It being full of aid and verifiable non combatants.
It's kidnapping.
Just like how the US abducted people in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Your example is also kidnapping but even excluding that bit of nuance the key word is "in" they never entered territorial waters and thus were never "in" Israel or Palestine. Israel can declare 1500mi of the coast of Somalia an exclusion zone then kidnap people there and that would make just as much sense in a legal view.
Gaza is under a declared blockade, Maritime Law (the oldest of international law) allows detaining any ship bound for a blockaded port. It's really cut and dry, they very publicly declared they were bound for a blockaded port. It's not like Israel boarded a ship that just happened to be in the area, these freedom flotilla yahoos very publicly declared they were bound for Gaza, which under Maritime Law permits Israel to board it.
International law is an agreement between nations and doesn't actually restrict nations from doing things that will hurt your feelings. You're going down the sovcit path when you pretend international law is whatever you want it to be.
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Yeah it's real typical for kidnappings to be publicly known, announced in advance and then the victim safetly returned promptly, entirely unharmed. Im sure you can fram it as a kidnapping with some backflips, but you just look like a whiny child.
She was captured and held unlawfully sure, but if it was actually for humanitarian aid and not self publicity, i might have some sympathy.Israel does not feel a need to hide their crimes because they believe any action they take is righteous because they are doing it and any action their enemies take is evil because they are doing it
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Gaza is under a declared blockade, Maritime Law (the oldest of international law) allows detaining any ship bound for a blockaded port. It's really cut and dry, they very publicly declared they were bound for a blockaded port. It's not like Israel boarded a ship that just happened to be in the area, these freedom flotilla yahoos very publicly declared they were bound for Gaza, which under Maritime Law permits Israel to board it.
International law is an agreement between nations and doesn't actually restrict nations from doing things that will hurt your feelings. You're going down the sovcit path when you pretend international law is whatever you want it to be.
It's not like Israel boarded a ship that just happened to be in the area,
That's exactly what happened, blockade borders have to be announced and ships have to be allowed time to leave the area. Israel left their blockade and kidnapped people aboard a ship they did not allow to leave an area they weren't in.
these freedom flotilla yahoos very publicly declared they were bound for Gaza, which under Maritime Law permits Israel to board it.
Once they breach the blockade yes arguably though with only aid that gets more complex. Essentially aid entry is allowed so long as you agree to security arrangements that are both reasonable and lawful. That could mean Israel could board and search, or doesn't mean they can blockade all aid to starve a population which is specifically and in multiple very very illegal.
https://casebook.icrc.org/a_to_z/glossary/blockade
Their sources section is awash with good relevant information and specifically findings on the last Israeli famous Israeli blockade and subsequent boarding (and death of iirc 9) which was found to be a legal blockade so long as the purpose was not starvation and aid could enter with security arrangements.
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Inequivalent.
you sure act like a whiny child, when faced with some solid arguments.
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I hate that someone recorded this without her consent.
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Elated to be wrong. You see, that is how being an adult works. Sometimes you are wrong, and when you are wrong about something with a positive outcome, you are happy that you were wrong.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]but also, spending energy on prevention (the publicity) and then when the thing doesn’t occur saying “i guess we were wrong” is the wrong take i think
same thing with Y2K and plenty of engineering things: people were saying “it was no big deal! yall were saying planes were going to fall out of the sky! we wasted so much time and money!”… yeah; it was a huge and expensive effort that’s why the bad things didn’t happen
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It's not like Israel boarded a ship that just happened to be in the area,
That's exactly what happened, blockade borders have to be announced and ships have to be allowed time to leave the area. Israel left their blockade and kidnapped people aboard a ship they did not allow to leave an area they weren't in.
these freedom flotilla yahoos very publicly declared they were bound for Gaza, which under Maritime Law permits Israel to board it.
Once they breach the blockade yes arguably though with only aid that gets more complex. Essentially aid entry is allowed so long as you agree to security arrangements that are both reasonable and lawful. That could mean Israel could board and search, or doesn't mean they can blockade all aid to starve a population which is specifically and in multiple very very illegal.
https://casebook.icrc.org/a_to_z/glossary/blockade
Their sources section is awash with good relevant information and specifically findings on the last Israeli famous Israeli blockade and subsequent boarding (and death of iirc 9) which was found to be a legal blockade so long as the purpose was not starvation and aid could enter with security arrangements.
An operation involving naval and air forces by which a belligerent completely prevents movement by sea from or to a port or coast belonging to or occupied by an enemy belligerent. To be mandatory, that is, for third States to be obliged to respect it, the blockade must be effective. This means that it must be maintained by a force sufficient to prevent all access to the enemy coast.
So... according to the link you've provided Israel is actually required to board the ship or they can no longer prevent shipments of weapons coming from Iran?
Essentially aid entry is allowed so long as you agree to security arrangements that are both reasonable and lawful.
Has there been any indication these flotilla activists attempted to make such security arrangements with Israel?
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I hate that someone recorded this without her consent.
Wait... are we framing her as a kidnapped child or a POW? Gotta make sure everyone is on the same page when making propaganda about this.
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So if somali pirates would just take the ship and send the crew back home it would all be good?
You're having an interesting opinion here.
I mean, honestly it worked for privateers. Hold up a ship, steal their gold and liquor, leave a month's rations, and sail on. Come to think of it, old school pirates probably had more empathy than Israeli leaders...
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Wait... are we framing her as a kidnapped child or a POW? Gotta make sure everyone is on the same page when making propaganda about this.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]She’s defintely an adult. But yeah apprehended in international waters, taken to a country that she didn’t chose to enter willingly, and then deported.
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An operation involving naval and air forces by which a belligerent completely prevents movement by sea from or to a port or coast belonging to or occupied by an enemy belligerent. To be mandatory, that is, for third States to be obliged to respect it, the blockade must be effective. This means that it must be maintained by a force sufficient to prevent all access to the enemy coast.
So... according to the link you've provided Israel is actually required to board the ship or they can no longer prevent shipments of weapons coming from Iran?
Essentially aid entry is allowed so long as you agree to security arrangements that are both reasonable and lawful.
Has there been any indication these flotilla activists attempted to make such security arrangements with Israel?
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Correct to an extent, the accepted meaning is that they must agree to security measures to pass through. It is not and never has been a way to willfully prevent aid and aide staff into combat zones.
They weren't in a blockaded zone as far as I'm aware, Israel only says they were approaching and providing intented destination as you must when attempting to pass through a blockade.
Even ignoring that they must be allowed to leave even if they enter the blockaded area without permission, it isn't a seize your property and imprison your crew for being in the general area openly providing intent kinda thing.
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In a way sort of good news, no?
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Yeah it's real typical for kidnappings to be publicly known, announced in advance and then the victim safetly returned promptly, entirely unharmed. Im sure you can fram it as a kidnapping with some backflips, but you just look like a whiny child.
She was captured and held unlawfully sure, but if it was actually for humanitarian aid and not self publicity, i might have some sympathy.Can't really agree with you on this one. I would welcome and fight for more people doing the right thing for personal benefit. Seems a lot better than the current circumstances.
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Israel does not feel a need to hide their crimes because they believe any action they take is righteous because they are doing it and any action their enemies take is evil because they are doing it
Couldnt you say much the same for the other side?
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you sure act like a whiny child, when faced with some solid arguments.
That's fine
