[No PHPun Intended] A Brief History of Web Development
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Most memes or jokes referencing a direct problem in PHP, are old or made by people who haven't touched the language in a decade(version 7 was in 2015, and it removed/fixed a lot of issues and added needed features).
There's also the huge looming thing that a lot of programmers forget: Websites like Wikipedia run on PHP, not to mention the amount of WordPress and similar websites are out there. Which means it will keep going strong. And for a while Facebook also used quite a lot of it, to the point where they made a rudimentary compiler instead of rewriting parts in more efficient languanges.
Also, most of the websites are made with WordPress, which... take a guess, yes, it runs on PHP!
(even though WordPress is a bad example because it's written in a horrible and ancient way)
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PHP will remain alive as long Wordpress is still being used.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]But let's not forget that the WordPress codebase is absolute dogshit.
And not an example of how to write proper modern PHP.
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What's your alternative for web development?
Server side rendered content can only get you so far.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Webassembly frameworks.
Blazor! But only because I'm a dotnet guy professionally.
Yew? I'm not good enough with Rust to have tried it.
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No JavaScript, just HTML and CSS. Basically no images. The heaviest page dumps 50 rows of logs in a table.
It's admittedly a fundamentally simple frontend, but we all know of frontends with a simple job and a not so simple frontend.
Ah, so it sounds like it was more about dieting than exercising.
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Java is a better fit. It hasn't fallen in popularity the way PHP has. But, I'm not convinced that serious backend services mostly use Java. It's one of the languages used, sure. But, I don't know if it beats C/C++ or Go. Apache's C. Nginx is C. Kubernetes is Go. Docker is Go.
I think Java has a niche with certain kinds of business logic applications, and those are pretty common. I would guess that in a typical set of interactions with a Google product, or a Meta product, or an AWS product, some parts of the traffic will be handled by services written in Java. But, others will be C/C++ or Go. There will probably also be some parts of the process that are PHP or Ruby or Python, and a lot of Javascript.
Most developers are not going to create the next kubernetes. For me it is usually down to earth integrations. Take this file from s3, send as email and sftp here. Create API to proxy another API. Take messages from Kafka, put on rabbitMQ. Save messages from rabbitMQ to database.
I think Java is very strong with libraries. Especially with Spring Boot and camel. I don't really see it as niche but more of a plain boring peanut butter sandwich. Boring. Unexciting. But works.
I am however trying to convince my boss to allow kotlin. Which has access to all the java libraries
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Yep, PHP is turning 30 this year! Wondering if "PHP is still relevant?" Ever since we have been hearing that PHP is dead. It was “dead” 10 years ago, 5 years ago, and “is dead” today. But somehow - it isn’t. Anyway... happy birthday!
bro ive been doing fullstack js dev for severals years to then realize php is superior
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Joined at the hip.
Used php for quite a few personal projects without touching wordpress.
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bro ive been doing fullstack js dev for severals years to then realize php is superior
The only reason php is still alive is Facebook
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bro ive been doing fullstack js dev for severals years to then realize php is superior
wrote on last edited by [email protected]W-what? Did you used js as backend? How was performance?
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bro ive been doing fullstack js dev for severals years to then realize php is superior
Well better late than never.
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Where I live, I still see people in a horse-drawn wagon. So, I guess horse-drawn wagons never died? It's only used for tourists and weddings, but that counts, right?
According to Tiobe, PHP was the programming language of the year in 2004. In 2010 it was number 3 in the top 10 programming languages. It's now out of the top 10 entirely. There really isn't a language that has completely disappeared. Mainframes are still programmed using COBOL, Scientists are still using FORTRAN, even Lisp, which has been around since the 1950s, is still going strong.
Maybe Actionscript counts as truly dead, since it was tied to Adobe Flash, and Flash is truly dead?
I have a lot of bad memories of PHP. It was, for a brief time, the main language I used, but it was so ugly and inconsistent. The only thing I loved about it, at the time, was that it wasn't Visual Basic. As bad as PHP was, at least I wasn't making web pages in that pile of hot garbage. But, I never felt joy writing something in PHP. At best it was a slog. At worst it was like pulling teeth.
Just about every other language has given me moments of fun. Original Javascript was a mess, but it already contained scheme-like features. It was sold as being an interpreted version of Java, but it had features that Java wouldn't have for at least a decade. C is a brutal and unforgiving language, but as long as you're not working with strings, it's great to have such low-level control over everything.
Maybe PHP has evolved like other languages, but I still am not interested in trying it out. Everything it was good at can be done better by other languages, and those are languages that give me joy, not pain. I hope it keeps dropping in the rankings so that people aren't exposed to it as one of their first languages.
There really isn’t a language that has completely disappeared.
How about that shit where a "program" was a bunch of patch cables plugged into various sockets? That shit is gone, man.
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Ah, so it sounds like it was more about dieting than exercising.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]I was thinking more in the sense of an exercisism.
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Is disliking something that (allegedly) is more popular with women than the average thing of its category anti-woman, even if no part of the complaint involves the user or their gender? The majority of users is likely still male anyway.
Is disliking something that (allegedly) is more popular with women than the average thing of its category anti-woman, even if no part of the complaint involves the user or their gender?
According to my sister-in-law, yes. I don't like Taylor Swift's music and apparently that makes me a misogynist.
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Magic quotes were the single biggest mistake I've ever seen any language standard make.
Those haven't existed in PHP anymore for a very long time.
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Yep, PHP is turning 30 this year! Wondering if "PHP is still relevant?" Ever since we have been hearing that PHP is dead. It was “dead” 10 years ago, 5 years ago, and “is dead” today. But somehow - it isn’t. Anyway... happy birthday!
Everyone in this thread: PHP sucks because it was bad when I last used it 20 years ago.
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Get that fucking JavaScript out of here
Typescript makes for a whole different experience on the FE
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Typescript makes for a whole different experience on the FE
When I ask a server for something, its response shouldn't be "here, you do it."
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W-what? Did you used js as backend? How was performance?
Thanks to web browser development, there has been quite a lot of focus/investment into JS runtime optimizations. Since the server-side runtime environments use those same JS engines, performance tends to be quite good.
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I was thinking more in the sense of an exercisism.
The belief that exercising one's code is good? I am certainly all in favor of testing, to be sure!
(Sorry, I have been having some playful fun at your expense: the actual word you have been reaching for is excise, e.g., "If only I had exercised more, then I would not have developed a tumor requiring excision!")
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Everyone in this thread: PHP sucks because it was bad when I last used it 20 years ago.
I mean it does suck, but it sucks less than anything else we have.
