Why do males complain about female-led stories or too many female characters when the majority are still dominated by males?
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I can't speak for anyone else. But for me personally. I don't mind if they have a female or male lead. What I care about is if the story and characters are believable. Many times it's like they just said well here we are going to have a female lead just because. Yet when you look at the story and at the character it doesn't make sense.
Ex :
A strong female lead who is supposed to be commanding people and yet when she gives commands it just comes across as bitchy not assertive. And when you look at the story the character wouldn't have the training to be able to know even what to do.
It's like the director and writers just had to put a female on the screen.
The above example is just an example not meant to point at a specific movie or show.
A few of movies where they did it right.
The women in the movie Red. That was excellent writing and acting. The original Alien movie was awesome. Oh yeah and Mr and Mrs Smith kicked ass Angelina was awesome in that movie
To many current movies just feel like a board room full of people with an agenda of let's make a movie with a female lead without asking if the scenario makes sense.
This is just my opinion as I can't speak for others.
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Me, a male reading mostly manhwa of the romance fantasy genre where 99% of it have female protagonists: yeah, this is not talking about me.
This kind of discussions are more about creating conflict rather than understanding. If people have time to start fights about the sex of the characters they have no interest in the story itself. Statistics on who is drawn more are kinda useless... -
Nobody notices things that conform to their expectations—and when anything violates their expectations, they assume it’s a deliberate message. (Even if it’s fiction violating their genre expectations in the direction of reality.)
And if they can’t figure out what the message is supposed to be, they let other people tell them. And if people tell them different things, they go with the one that makes them feel the strongest reaction.
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A strong female lead
Women are strong in a different way to men and writers just gender swapping a male character is always fucking obnoxious.
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I found they usually huff until nearly shitting themselves before schoffing once more.
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There's a saying, something like "When you're used to privilege, equality feels like oppression." It's the same with white folks who feel like it's a big deal when there's more than a token POC in something. It must be DEI, right?
I'm a straight, white, middle class male, but I'm fully aware that my life experience is much different from so many other peoples'. And I've never understood why some people feel like it takes away from them when someone else gets something, like the straight folks who feel like it takes away from straight marriage if gay folks can marry.
People are weird.
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I guess my reply was coming from women typically find being called females odd, often by "incels," so I thought males had the same tone. I didn't mean weird in a rude way! You have a good point.
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as bitchy not assertive
Too often, a behavior is considered bossy or bitchy in a woman, but would be considered assertive or commanding in a man.
A woman crying is emotional and can't be trusted to 'do what needs to be done', a man punching holes in walls is just frustrated and can be relied upon when the going gets tough.
...or at least that's what our rather misogynistic culture likes to tell us.
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I didn't complain about females whatsoever.
I complain about complainers.
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people who are socially functional do not actually complain about this. the internet does not represent humanity
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Yes, we get that, but I think they mean that when incels call women "females" it's cringe as hell, because we know it's coming from a place where they don't think of women in a healthy way, so this comes off as stooping to their level
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Thank you for bringing this into my life.
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They become president and burn the country down
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Because men run entertainment, we can make sure men are making it. Because men are making it, their Mary sue stories are the ones that get released.
That’s how it happens, in my opinion, but I don’t get how more men aren’t completely fucking bored looking at it and listening to it! Seriously, as a middle aged, acerbic, bearded white man, I’m sick of seeing characters that only I can relate to. It’s not a compelling character anymore. I want different characters with different stories!
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I'd argue the difference is that when people say "females", it's usually in a vague sexual context- and that term includes girls and teenage women
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Yes, that's what I meant. Thanks for explaining it better!
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No problem, it’s one of the best things I’ve seen on the internet in a while.
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Yeah I'm aware of the problems with saying "men and females" but I thought the issue was more about a double standard of using different terms for different genders... If we say "males and females" and use the equivalent terms for both, is there a problem with this? Because it's not treating them differently so I don't really understand
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Too often, I would agree with you yes. But it’s also in the context of how they’re crying and the way that they are crying. There’s a type of crying where for example, a commander is leading troops across the battlefield, watched longtime friends get blown apart and the commander sits down and just quietly cries after the battle. Whether the commander is male or female isn’t going to matter. Most people would say OK that’s reasonable level of emotion for the commander.
That little context, there is what too many directors and producers don’t understand. The emotion has to fit the character and has to fit the scene In order for it to be believable..
As far as the whole bossy and bitchy versus assertive comparing men to women. Again, I can’t speak for what other people think and say
can only speak for my personal point of view. Where I have a real problem with it is when actors and actresses aren’t taught appropriately to be assertive without being bitchy. Men generally are able to pick up on it easier. Women sometimes they don’t pick up on it and they’ve gotta have voice Training. Now that is not saying all women are that way so I don’t want somebody coming back and saying hey this guy just said all women arethis way. Well no I didn’t. But many times women don’t have the role models needed in their life to understand how to be assertive. Well, how do you act assertive on a movie screen if nobody’s ever taught you how to be assertive?
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::: spoiler I hate when a story is forced into any agenda. Like making Daneel a woman in Foundation is atrocious because it has other implications across all of Asimov's stories like with Gladia and Jander, the relationship with Elijah and family dynamic, how Solarians perceive Daneel, and the nuance and contrast between Daneel and Dors just to name a few off the top of my head.
These are stupid people making last minute frivolous and agenda based pandering nonsense decisions. It is disingenuously stealing from the richness of the story these films are supposedly depicting. If they can't tell the story they claim, they should be creating an independent work that stands entirely on its own instead of butchering the original art that should be told with full scope in the long term.
If you want to tell a female lead story, awesome. Pick a good one to start with. God Emperor of Dune is all about super strong women in roles. I mean there is an army of all women that outright rape men in battle. There are all levels of women present in that story. Chapterhouse Dune is another all about female leading roles. Tell the story around Susan Calvin in Asimov's stories. There are tons of these types of stories. Hacking and butchering a universe or fitting a female lead in by committee agenda is absolutely garbage. Like Star Wars is a story about inevitable authoritarianism and exceptionalism where no one else is relevant. Trying to make that into some diversity flick is absurd. It is ultimately the wrong story from the start. I loved it growing up, but it is what it is and nostalgia is often blind. The story has an underlying ethos that is the foundation of the universe. It is flawed. So what, it can still be entertaining. When that ethos is in conflict, the story stops having any relevant value. Build a new story on a better foundation. Reshaping old stories shows that the entire premise is overly conservative bankers that treat art as investment. Bankers are shitty artists. They are incapable of being bold and trying new and novel things. There is no art in such endeavors. I have no problem with female leads. I take issue with terrible art by committee and bankers.
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