cis friend does witchcraft
-
Yeah well that shit silly too.
wrote last edited by [email protected]And? There's more important shit to worry about than people being silly
-
What I think you missed is that I'm saying there are far fewer excuses for spells than there are for prayers. If we think of a prayer or spell like a transmission, one that starts and ends in our reality but can't be measured by science is (even) dumber than one that starts above our reality by an omnipotent, hyperdimensional trickster set on not revealing itself.
A prayer means that someone else – infinitely wiser and outside time and space – will do this for you if they so choose. From this, you have near-infinite freedom to weasel around why your prayer was or wasn't answered. You've made it unfalsifiable, which is intellectual sludge, but it means you've insulated yourself from being provably wrong.
But for "witchcraft"? Yes, this particular brand of delusion often turns to weasel spells (whereas I used to see a lot more of "I can do concrete, measurable things that couldn't happen otherwise"), but given they're making the action happen or creating a conduit for that action, there ought to be some physically observable explanation behind it. But apparently magic can interface with patterns of candles and lavender and minerals and clockwise tea set up by some early 20s stoner in their parents' basement but can't be measured by science.
They're not "exactly the same behavior" because 1) the locus of control is different and 2) that locus of control effectively being yourself should make this scientifically falsifiable.
Literally every single excuse for prayers not working can be employed for spells not working just as effectively, no modification required
-
Yeah well that shit silly too.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Mindfulness is its own reward and prayer, even to a rock, can help. It’s about surrendering and accepting that there is something in the universe that you have no power over.
It’s not about believing the rock is alive or capable or changing things for you, but by simply reframing your desires as a universal one rather than an internal/personal one you can find yourself motivated in a different way and opportunities may present themselves differently.
I’m also talking about the traditional concept of prayer, not whatever the fuck the Christians are doing.
-
At least witches aren't angling for a theocracy.
Sure but I’m not really interested in playing whataboutism games when we are talking about two different types of make believe.
-
Sure but I’m not really interested in playing whataboutism games when we are talking about two different types of make believe.
Then don't try to paint one as somehow more respectable? Or better yet just don't respond to a comment if you don't want to follow a side conversation? What a weird reply
-
As if its any worse than the alternatives
It's definitely worse than not believing in magic
-
There’s lots of people out there who don’t think playing pretend with magic is enjoyable man. Some people think it’s silly shit. If you like that stuff you’ll just have to accept that part of it.
Look dude, there's people out there who believe in magic and you're just going to have to live with that. Don't get your panties in a twist when you see them online and give into the urge to tell them it's silly.
-
At least witches aren't angling for a theocracy.
Sure. Doesn't make them not stupid as hell; it just makes their beliefs less corrosive to society. I can imagine they'd be extremely toxic if they had widespread public support, but probably still not nearly as much as "I commune with an all-powerful sky daddy whose word is ultimate law that divides people between everlasting bliss and everlasting suffering and I can choose to believe whatever that word is" like Abrahamic religions.
-
It's definitely worse than not believing in magic
Man im too old to give a fuck what people believe anymore.
-
If I had to guess I'd say the friend is either boosting the transition because duh, or trying to fuck because why else would you not tell them what the spell is for? Unless there's some rule about spellcasting like for birthday wishes where it doesn't work if you tell
Now you raise the interesting point as to whether birthday wishes are witchcraft
-
Sure. Doesn't make them not stupid as hell; it just makes their beliefs less corrosive to society. I can imagine they'd be extremely toxic if they had widespread public support, but probably still not nearly as much as "I commune with an all-powerful sky daddy whose word is ultimate law that divides people between everlasting bliss and everlasting suffering and I can choose to believe whatever that word is" like Abrahamic religions.
Sure. I think anything that encourages people to believe things that they want to instead of because they're true opens the way for them to apply that blind faith in other things that matter more, like politics. I do think organized religion is a bit worse because it also teaches subservience to undeserved authority.
Anyway, in the end, I'm waaay more worried about the one that is organized and has power than the people that aren't bothering anybody and my opinions will reflect that.
-
Frey, brother of Freya, is usually also depicted with a big ol' dick. He's a fertility and agriculture god! Of course you want him to fuck your fields.
what are u doin step field
-
The mechanism in both cases is that the practitioner does ritual and stuff happens because magic. Who gives a fuck what the magic is???
wrote last edited by [email protected]Except it categorically isn't. If you sit two people in a laboratory – an adherent to an Abrahamic religion and a "practitioner" of "magic" – neither will be able to perform a supernatural feat. We agree that far. But unless the "witch" wants to resort to special pleading that they can't perform it under laboratory conditions for no good reason (the woo magic system presumably isn't sentient and has no reason to care? or maybe they have really bad performance anxiety?), then it's provably false. Even if they say something vague like "better luck" or "better health", well we have statistics for a reason. Are you not powerful enough? Okay, well like, we're measuring down to the attometer at this point. If you want to drink masala chai under an amber calcite chandelier of 100 candles, listening to pagan-coded fantasy music, and you can consistently, measurably move a human hair 20 meters away, congratulations: you've still proven witchcraft is real.
The Abrahamic God, meanwhile, is constructed to be unfalsifiable. It'd be subject to everything I just mentioned except that there are a million bullshit but unfalsifiable rationalizations why a sentient God wouldn't respond to these prayers to let them be observed. Literally no matter how hard you try, a sentient third-party gets the final say.
The difference between believing in a monotheistic God and believing in witchcraft is the difference between believing in Santa Claus and believing you made and placed those presents yourself. Of course neither is true and both are ridiculous: there is another entity putting those presents there, but it's not magic, and by taking action in the real world, you can influence what those presents will be without magic. But for one of them, if you told your other little kid friends, they'd ask you to put up or shut up.
-
Except it categorically isn't. If you sit two people in a laboratory – an adherent to an Abrahamic religion and a "practitioner" of "magic" – neither will be able to perform a supernatural feat. We agree that far. But unless the "witch" wants to resort to special pleading that they can't perform it under laboratory conditions for no good reason (the woo magic system presumably isn't sentient and has no reason to care? or maybe they have really bad performance anxiety?), then it's provably false. Even if they say something vague like "better luck" or "better health", well we have statistics for a reason. Are you not powerful enough? Okay, well like, we're measuring down to the attometer at this point. If you want to drink masala chai under an amber calcite chandelier of 100 candles, listening to pagan-coded fantasy music, and you can consistently, measurably move a human hair 20 meters away, congratulations: you've still proven witchcraft is real.
The Abrahamic God, meanwhile, is constructed to be unfalsifiable. It'd be subject to everything I just mentioned except that there are a million bullshit but unfalsifiable rationalizations why a sentient God wouldn't respond to these prayers to let them be observed. Literally no matter how hard you try, a sentient third-party gets the final say.
The difference between believing in a monotheistic God and believing in witchcraft is the difference between believing in Santa Claus and believing you made and placed those presents yourself. Of course neither is true and both are ridiculous: there is another entity putting those presents there, but it's not magic, and by taking action in the real world, you can influence what those presents will be without magic. But for one of them, if you told your other little kid friends, they'd ask you to put up or shut up.
You're making a completely pointless argument. Neither obviously false belief deserves respect and science isn't required to understand that.
-
Now you raise the interesting point as to whether birthday wishes are witchcraft
wrote last edited by [email protected]Depends on who you're asking, from experience all I can say conclusively is that Catholics would definitely say no, but I'm 100% sure there's at least one christian sect out there that would say yes and be entirely serious
-
Look dude, there's people out there who believe in magic and you're just going to have to live with that. Don't get your panties in a twist when you see them online and give into the urge to tell them it's silly.
lol I didn’t get my panties in a twist, you do you, but I’m not going to pretend I don’t think adults practicing witchcraft isn’t silly. And it’s obviously not an unpopular opinion. Y’all are being way too defensive about this.
-
Then don't try to paint one as somehow more respectable? Or better yet just don't respond to a comment if you don't want to follow a side conversation? What a weird reply
I definitely think witchcraft is more respectable than Christianity, I wasn’t trying to paint it otherwise and I don’t see how you could take what I said as that. But whatever if you’re mad at me just cast a curse on me or whatever and I won’t hold it against you.
-
lol I didn’t get my panties in a twist, you do you, but I’m not going to pretend I don’t think adults practicing witchcraft isn’t silly. And it’s obviously not an unpopular opinion. Y’all are being way too defensive about this.
If you were defending Christians believing Jesus is the Son of God people would probably be flipping their shit.
-
Mindfulness is its own reward and prayer, even to a rock, can help. It’s about surrendering and accepting that there is something in the universe that you have no power over.
It’s not about believing the rock is alive or capable or changing things for you, but by simply reframing your desires as a universal one rather than an internal/personal one you can find yourself motivated in a different way and opportunities may present themselves differently.
I’m also talking about the traditional concept of prayer, not whatever the fuck the Christians are doing.
wrote last edited by [email protected]A lot of Christian’s see how they pray very similarly to what you just described my man.
-
If you were defending Christians believing Jesus is the Son of God people would probably be flipping their shit.
Yeah I’d never do that. Also this is the internet, people are gonna flip their shit no matter what I say.
