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  3. What do you believe that most people of your political creed don't?

What do you believe that most people of your political creed don't?

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asklemmy
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  • U [email protected]

    What I find funny is that some days I'll be adamant about how bad UBI would be because of the cost, and the next, I'd be the loudest voice next to yours for its good. I feel it would be super easy to implement. Basically, you'd tax every company for every self checkout machine as if each machine is a person and the salary that would be paid to the person is instead of a machine would be used to fund it. I k ow its poorly worded, but I hope people have enough sense to understand what I mean.

    gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deG This user is from outside of this forum
    gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deG This user is from outside of this forum
    [email protected]
    wrote on last edited by
    #48

    Yeah, there's a lot of technicalities involved. Like, do you tax the companies directly, or rather the billionaires owning the companies?

    My proposal so far is: Every person who has citizenship has to pay 3% of their total wealth off as wealth tax annually. That would fund surprisingly much. I did some preliminary math, and in germany, such a wealth tax alone would provide every person with citizenship with approximately $120 /month.

    Which is just a small support. UBI doesn't necessarily need to jump from 0 to 100%, maybe it's easier to introduce it slowly and then increase the value.

    If i may ask: what makes you against UBI on some days?

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    • terevos@lemm.eeT [email protected]

      That Trump is neither conservative (in any way) nor cares at all about any traditional Republican values

      darkdemize@sh.itjust.worksD This user is from outside of this forum
      darkdemize@sh.itjust.worksD This user is from outside of this forum
      [email protected]
      wrote on last edited by
      #49

      Trump and MAGA are regressive. They are hell-bent on taking this country back to the first half of the 20th century, in all the worst possible ways.

      rocketpoweredgorilla@lemmy.caR S 2 Replies Last reply
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      • J [email protected]

        Just wanted to prove that political diversity ain't dead. Remember, don't downvote for disagreements.

        jerkface@lemmy.caJ This user is from outside of this forum
        jerkface@lemmy.caJ This user is from outside of this forum
        [email protected]
        wrote on last edited by
        #50

        The animals we create are morally entitled to the exact same unconditional love and protection as our own children.

        ultragigagigantic@lemmy.mlU J black0ut@pawb.socialB K 4 Replies Last reply
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        • T [email protected]

          Donald Trump isn’t stupid.

          jerkface@lemmy.caJ This user is from outside of this forum
          jerkface@lemmy.caJ This user is from outside of this forum
          [email protected]
          wrote on last edited by
          #51

          Intelligence and stupidity have nothing to do with each other. He can do stupid things out of pride, narcissism, etc., and still be an otherwise intelligent person.

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • D [email protected]

            The concept of "throwing the baby out with the bathwater"

            There's no nuance from the left. The left polices itself like the radical right thinks they (the party of law and order) do.

            Had a podcaster get dropped by their long time partner because there were lewd text messages sent.

            I'm tired of the reactionary bullshit, currently Dawkins and Gaiman are being dropped, and I understand not wanting to associate/support Dawkins' current views, the guy wrote very persuasive works that shouldn't lose value because he lost his empathy.

            I still read and enjoy enders game despite knowing what a tool Card turned into, how is it so difficult to separate art from the artist?

            jerkface@lemmy.caJ This user is from outside of this forum
            jerkface@lemmy.caJ This user is from outside of this forum
            [email protected]
            wrote on last edited by
            #52

            There's no nuance to the left... as compared to the right?

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • D [email protected]

              The concept of "throwing the baby out with the bathwater"

              There's no nuance from the left. The left polices itself like the radical right thinks they (the party of law and order) do.

              Had a podcaster get dropped by their long time partner because there were lewd text messages sent.

              I'm tired of the reactionary bullshit, currently Dawkins and Gaiman are being dropped, and I understand not wanting to associate/support Dawkins' current views, the guy wrote very persuasive works that shouldn't lose value because he lost his empathy.

              I still read and enjoy enders game despite knowing what a tool Card turned into, how is it so difficult to separate art from the artist?

              T This user is from outside of this forum
              T This user is from outside of this forum
              [email protected]
              wrote on last edited by
              #53

              Dawkins' anti-theist works and his reactionary views are related to one another. As with Hitchens and Sam Harris, their work was poorly researched and was forwarded because their real agendas were based on chauvinist attitudes, particularly against muslims.

              Dennett was the only good one and unfortunately he passed away. PZ Myers is less knowm but also didn't bite on the islamophobia bait.

              Based on the various accounts, Gaiman is a cruel and explpitative rapist and I find it difficult to appreciate words about charm or love from such a source.

              Do you have any other examples of people who should not be rejected by the left? Who was the podcaster?

              PS always kill your heroes. Being of the left means doing work and building organizations that (in addition to trying to prevent) withstand the inevitable failures of prominent figures.

              J 1 Reply Last reply
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              • J [email protected]

                I think we need to figure out how to make leftism more appealing to centrists, and particularly to the cis/straight/white/male demographic.

                T This user is from outside of this forum
                T This user is from outside of this forum
                [email protected]
                wrote on last edited by
                #54

                Are you active in any socialist parties?

                J 1 Reply Last reply
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                • J [email protected]

                  Just wanted to prove that political diversity ain't dead. Remember, don't downvote for disagreements.

                  ultragigagigantic@lemmy.mlU This user is from outside of this forum
                  ultragigagigantic@lemmy.mlU This user is from outside of this forum
                  [email protected]
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #55

                  Necessities should be free for all.

                  cowbee@lemmy.mlC 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • breadcat@sh.itjust.worksB [email protected]

                    the anti-work movement has been a blight on communism

                    ultragigagigantic@lemmy.mlU This user is from outside of this forum
                    ultragigagigantic@lemmy.mlU This user is from outside of this forum
                    [email protected]
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #56

                    Do you see it as a waste of time or a distraction? I see it as a gateway drug.

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • jerkface@lemmy.caJ [email protected]

                      The animals we create are morally entitled to the exact same unconditional love and protection as our own children.

                      ultragigagigantic@lemmy.mlU This user is from outside of this forum
                      ultragigagigantic@lemmy.mlU This user is from outside of this forum
                      [email protected]
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #57

                      You haven't met my parents.

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • 0 [email protected]

                        The acab movement has caused more harm than it has salved. Furthering the ideas that there are no good cops means that nobody good will become a cop in the future, furthering the issue

                        O This user is from outside of this forum
                        O This user is from outside of this forum
                        [email protected]
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #58

                        Law enforcement is one of the last careers that still offers a pension, has a union that fights for its members, and is a good source of income without going into massive college debt.

                        Seems like something the left would be in love with, but systemic issues have demonized the entire profession. I think an influx on left-leaning officers would be great, but like politics- people who would be good at the job stay away from it.

                        davel@lemmy.mlD 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deG [email protected]

                          If there's no free trade, you don't try to undercut the prices of your neighbor's factory. You just produce your thing, and that's it.

                          azzu@lemm.eeA This user is from outside of this forum
                          azzu@lemm.eeA This user is from outside of this forum
                          [email protected]
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #59

                          Wait, which borders are you talking about? The borders of each individuals property? So everyone should be self-sufficient, with no trade happening at all?

                          gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deG 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deG [email protected]

                            I'm a strict leftist, that means, i believe that humans (in fact, all life) are valuable. Yes, you have to say that in these times. Lots of politicians these days seem to disagree with even that.

                            As a direct consequence, i advocate for UBI (universal basic income). Because the people need to live off something, and it is getting harder by the year to be successful through your own labor. (As numerous articles describe, - i won't link them here, because that would be out of scope - hashtag "working poor").

                            However, i think the borders must be closed. That affects both goods and migration. If the borders are closed, people stop competing with one another. Just a reminder: "compete" comes from Latin and basically means "fight". People are fighing against one another, and i think that makes a society sick. If the borders close, economy slows down considerably, and people stop competing.

                            ultragigagigantic@lemmy.mlU This user is from outside of this forum
                            ultragigagigantic@lemmy.mlU This user is from outside of this forum
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                            wrote on last edited by
                            #60

                            UBI sounds like keeping capitalism on life support after it attempted suicide (again).

                            I'd give a functional UBI system 4 generations before it's useless much like the minimum wage.

                            gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deG 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • U [email protected]

                              I know a few people who are police, one being a very close friend who is now retired from being a cop. Not a single one of them is a bad person or cop. The stories I hear from them make me wonder why they would do it, and the universal answer is usually to help people. The best part is that of the six or so people I know counting my friends, they are all quitting because people treat them so badly juat for doing thier job, and they will be replaced with cops who show no compassion. I myself have many stories of cops being understanding and caring and, in turn, being very lenient. When I talk to people with the acab mentality, the police never go easy. It's odd how just treat people how you want to be treated works.

                              darkdemize@sh.itjust.worksD This user is from outside of this forum
                              darkdemize@sh.itjust.worksD This user is from outside of this forum
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                              wrote on last edited by
                              #61

                              I'm asking this in good faith, but are you/your police friends white? Historically speaking, minorities have been profiled, been more likely to be arrested, and been subject to harsher sentences than white people have. This is no small part to the reason that the ACAB sentiment runs much deeper in minority populations. And I say this as a white man with a mother and brother that work for the police.

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                              • 0 [email protected]

                                The acab movement has caused more harm than it has salved. Furthering the ideas that there are no good cops means that nobody good will become a cop in the future, furthering the issue

                                lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.mlL This user is from outside of this forum
                                lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.mlL This user is from outside of this forum
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                                wrote on last edited by
                                #62

                                The issue is structural, there are no "good cops" in the same way there are no "good pimps" or "good slave owners."

                                There were some slave owners who were kind to their slaves, taught them to read, allowed them to have some free time and make a small amount of money.

                                That doesn't mean that what they were doing was morally acceptable. They still were buying and selling human beings like property.

                                Policing, especially in the USA is rotten to the core. There are absolutely some cops who are kind people, who become police officers out of a naive belief that they can do good for society as a whole in that profession.

                                But those people don't usually last long. They either leave after seeing the ugly underbelly, or they become corrupted by the system. The police will always act in the interest of the rich and powerful, or else they get fired. If they are told to break up a protests, they will always comply. If they are told to block a corporate skyscraper so that protesters cannot get into it to stage a sit-in, they will do it, even as ultra wealthy oligarchs stream safely past them to conduct horrifically corrupt dealings that hurt and kill millions of people across the world.

                                The cop's job is also to go around trying to bust people for crimes. If a cop comes up to you out of the blue and starts up a conversation, 99% of the time they are fishing for information, trying to sus something out. They aren't just trying to be friendly, they are doing their job. In the US at least, the cops are allowed to lie to you in an investigation in order to try to get you to admit guilt. They are allowed and trained to do it, to use all kinds of trickery to manipulate you into a confession, or to get Intel that helps them.

                                In addition, the examples people frequently cite as good things the cops do would be better done by non-cops. First aid? Suicide intervention? Disaster relief? Theft deterrence? Wellness checks? Those are all things that would be better done by non-cops if we funded and grew those kinds of organizations instead of further militarizing the police.

                                ACAB has never meant that all cops are evil people, it means that no matter how good of a person a cop is, they will always be empowering a corrupt and evil system.

                                Why don't we see the same sentiment about paramedics, firefighters, and heck, even soldiers? Because the systems that those folks are a part of don't have the same corrupting effect. Even soldiers are generally looked on much more favorably than cops, even though politically and socially, there is a large amount of overlap. Part of this is propaganda, but another factor is the standards soldiers are held to in the US. They are expected to carry themselves extremely well, and can be severely punished, even jailed for misconduct.

                                As a personal anecdote, I grew up in both worlds. My dad and several members of my family were both in the military and were cops. I was around both cultures a ton. I've had many bad encounters with police officers over the years, and that's with me knowing all the classic, "always keep your hands visible and comply" stuff that my dad and his cop friends told me.

                                I've never had a single negative encounter with an on-duty soldier. They've always been extremely respectful and grounded. Like I said, just an anecdote, but interesting to think about. If cops could be fired or even jailed for relatively minor infractions, even have their lives destroyed like soldiers who are dishonorably discharged, ACAB would probably never have became a thing.

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                                • J [email protected]

                                  Just wanted to prove that political diversity ain't dead. Remember, don't downvote for disagreements.

                                  T This user is from outside of this forum
                                  T This user is from outside of this forum
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                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #63

                                  This question is difficult to correctly answer, as anyone can define their own political boundaries. They can be wrong about those boundaries and they can define many different ones that are all valid. Is my "political creed" to be a communist? Which subset might that mean? Am I friendly with certain subsets despite disagreeing with them (yes) and if so would they potentially count as the majority? Am I a (de)famed Western leftist or part of a worldwide effort in terms of having a less popular view of a subject?

                                  I would say that among the people with whom I have the most general agreement, my least popular opinion is the potential for imperial core workers to become radicalized and organized for the left. A very large amount of organized resources is constantly poured into efforts to prevent this from happening, including those that reinforce settler, white supremacist, and chauvinist attitudes that permeate our cultures. That means that our struggle is very challenging right now but also means that if those flows are ever cut off or undermined, there will be immense opportunity and we have to be ready to channel the inevitable accompaniment to the conditions (austerity) that got us to that place away from neoliberal fascistic movements.

                                  Basically, there is a common pathway in understanding that goes from hope for revolution from within the imperial core (no successful precedents) to attempts to understand this and explain why it's least likely to happen there. This can lead to a self-defeating cynicism towards all imperial core organizing or to curb vision. But I think it is our duty to continually reformulate as needed to discovery organizable enclaves, to grow with current and upcoming conditions. We owe that to each other.

                                  J 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • azzu@lemm.eeA [email protected]

                                    Wait, which borders are you talking about? The borders of each individuals property? So everyone should be self-sufficient, with no trade happening at all?

                                    gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deG This user is from outside of this forum
                                    gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deG This user is from outside of this forum
                                    [email protected]
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #64

                                    no i meant that in a metaphorical sense. no free trade means that there's no "getting ahead" (because you can't flood a foreign market with your cheap products), so people put in less effort.

                                    azzu@lemm.eeA 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • azzu@lemm.eeA [email protected]

                                      So what is the alternative to "downvoting" someone's opinion? You can't support it, obviously, that would be stupid. I just see no other way than "downvoting", saying "well, I see where you're coming from, but your opinion is wrong and doesn't achieve what you want".

                                      R This user is from outside of this forum
                                      R This user is from outside of this forum
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                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #65

                                      Your example is about as spicy as lukewarm water. The responses I got involved the words "bootlicker", "nazi", "fascist", and "chud", various expletives, called into question my mental health and respect for minorities, and listed several examples of why holding those views made me the scum of the earth.

                                      azzu@lemm.eeA J 2 Replies Last reply
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                                      • ultragigagigantic@lemmy.mlU [email protected]

                                        UBI sounds like keeping capitalism on life support after it attempted suicide (again).

                                        I'd give a functional UBI system 4 generations before it's useless much like the minimum wage.

                                        gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deG This user is from outside of this forum
                                        gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deG This user is from outside of this forum
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                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #66

                                        I'd give the revolution in the US zero % chance of success, which one is better?

                                        cowbee@lemmy.mlC 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • J [email protected]

                                          Just wanted to prove that political diversity ain't dead. Remember, don't downvote for disagreements.

                                          deadcatbounce@reddthat.comD This user is from outside of this forum
                                          deadcatbounce@reddthat.comD This user is from outside of this forum
                                          [email protected]
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #67

                                          I don't seem to have a political creed anymore.

                                          I believe in honesty and being honourable.

                                          breadcat@sh.itjust.worksB J 2 Replies Last reply
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