What would be your advice to undocumented immigrants to avoid I.C.E.?
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The entire plannet is becoming uninhabitable. Globalism is taking control. Maybe you should find a small village in the mountains somewhere.
If you’re going to use the term “globalism” you should at least define it, because some use it as an antisemitic dog whistle.
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Where to?
I see a possible future.
I attempt to get political asylum in EU.
They will 99% chance reject.
Then I get deported to the US.
Then the ICE agents refuse to recognize my citizenship.
I end up in an el salvador concentration camp.
Why are your only options the EU or US? Is every other option really unavailable/worse than ending up in a concentration camp? /Gen.
Not saying you should flee just because you face oppression, just wondering about your listed reason not to.
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You're not wrong, but if the person is from Mexico, where else do they go? If they don't have many items and can afford a flight to another continent, they could try taking one to a country like Russia, then illegally cross into Europe, but that's another risk.
Why couldn't they live in Mexico? Why is the EU or US the only option? Is the rapidly declining US really so much better for you that you would risk being detained and sent to a concentration camp than live in Mexico?
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Why couldn't they live in Mexico? Why is the EU or US the only option? Is the rapidly declining US really so much better for you that you would risk being detained and sent to a concentration camp than live in Mexico?
It's best to ask those who risk everything just to get to the US. I assume Mexico is inferior by most if not all metrics - at least pre-Trump. For example, you are five times more likely to get killed in Mexico than in the US.
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It's best to ask those who risk everything just to get to the US. I assume Mexico is inferior by most if not all metrics - at least pre-Trump. For example, you are five times more likely to get killed in Mexico than in the US.
Yes, that would obviously be best for discovering their individual reasons and I have discussed it with a few. But I'm not asking you why they come here. I'm asking why you believe what you said to be true and valid. I'm Mexican-American myself and your words just didn't sit right with me, it felt like you were just dismissing the whole idea of people living in Mexico...like a liberalized/opposite version of the "if you love Mexico why don't you go back!" We get whenever we show pride for Mexico (Implying that Mexico is a terrible place nobody should want to live or be proud of). I'm sure that wasn't your intention but its how it came off to me.
As for the substance of your response.
While mexico is certainly below in most metrics on averages, that includes wealth and cost of living averages. You shouldn't focus on just averages but the disparity between things like cost of healthcare and general living vs wages. Also being among the lower classes drastically increases your chances to be murdered in the US which isn't accurately represented in the average national statistics. It's not as simple as Mexico being a death pit and America is safe.
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Yes, that would obviously be best for discovering their individual reasons and I have discussed it with a few. But I'm not asking you why they come here. I'm asking why you believe what you said to be true and valid. I'm Mexican-American myself and your words just didn't sit right with me, it felt like you were just dismissing the whole idea of people living in Mexico...like a liberalized/opposite version of the "if you love Mexico why don't you go back!" We get whenever we show pride for Mexico (Implying that Mexico is a terrible place nobody should want to live or be proud of). I'm sure that wasn't your intention but its how it came off to me.
As for the substance of your response.
While mexico is certainly below in most metrics on averages, that includes wealth and cost of living averages. You shouldn't focus on just averages but the disparity between things like cost of healthcare and general living vs wages. Also being among the lower classes drastically increases your chances to be murdered in the US which isn't accurately represented in the average national statistics. It's not as simple as Mexico being a death pit and America is safe.
I think the mere fact of someone having (presumably) taken the great risks of entering the US illegally and staying illegally is enough to infer that going back is not seen as a viable option, hence me discussing the alternatives as requested. On the other hand, suggesting to go back to Mexico is as good as no advice, because that's what deportation does as well.
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I think the mere fact of someone having (presumably) taken the great risks of entering the US illegally and staying illegally is enough to infer that going back is not seen as a viable option, hence me discussing the alternatives as requested. On the other hand, suggesting to go back to Mexico is as good as no advice, because that's what deportation does as well.
"suggesting to go back to Mexico is as good as no advice, because that’s what deportation does as well."
No it's not. Do you deny the existence of the border camps? Do you deny that people are being sent to Guantanamo or an El Salvadorian concentration camp?
Suggesting they go back to Mexico is suggesting that the reward is not worth the heightened risk.
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Stop being avoidant, and make plans for when you’re caught so you & your family know what the steps will be. Go ahead and contact a lawyer.
I wonder if some sort of "Dead Man's Switch" might be an appropriate solution for something like this? IIRC there are services that will send out messages to certain people if you don't log in for a set amount of time, so maybe something like that could be set up to email friends/family/a lawyer/the consulate of your home country or whoever in case you get snatched?
It probably won't be able to tell them where you are or what exactly happened obviously, but it could at least let people know something's up.
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Yes, that would obviously be best for discovering their individual reasons and I have discussed it with a few. But I'm not asking you why they come here. I'm asking why you believe what you said to be true and valid. I'm Mexican-American myself and your words just didn't sit right with me, it felt like you were just dismissing the whole idea of people living in Mexico...like a liberalized/opposite version of the "if you love Mexico why don't you go back!" We get whenever we show pride for Mexico (Implying that Mexico is a terrible place nobody should want to live or be proud of). I'm sure that wasn't your intention but its how it came off to me.
As for the substance of your response.
While mexico is certainly below in most metrics on averages, that includes wealth and cost of living averages. You shouldn't focus on just averages but the disparity between things like cost of healthcare and general living vs wages. Also being among the lower classes drastically increases your chances to be murdered in the US which isn't accurately represented in the average national statistics. It's not as simple as Mexico being a death pit and America is safe.
I'm not really part of this discussion but for a lot of people brought to the US as little kids, they don't know anyone in Mexico, maybe don't even speak or read Spanish well enough to get settled there on a moment's notice
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I'm not really part of this discussion but for a lot of people brought to the US as little kids, they don't know anyone in Mexico, maybe don't even speak or read Spanish well enough to get settled there on a moment's notice
Yeah and I get that. But they also don't know anyone is Russia and/or Europe and don't speak Polish/German/etc to make sneaking through Russia to Europe a more valid option than going to Mexico.... especially when Europe themselves are going through a big surge in anti-immigant sentiments.
I just didn't like how their message came off as if Mexico was literally Hell to be avoided at any cost.
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I wonder if some sort of "Dead Man's Switch" might be an appropriate solution for something like this? IIRC there are services that will send out messages to certain people if you don't log in for a set amount of time, so maybe something like that could be set up to email friends/family/a lawyer/the consulate of your home country or whoever in case you get snatched?
It probably won't be able to tell them where you are or what exactly happened obviously, but it could at least let people know something's up.
It’s better than nothing, but I think it’s more prudent to discuss it, write down the plan, and consult an immigration lawyer.
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Note: I am a US Citizen, so this isn't advice for me.
But hypothetically, if I met someone who is a refugee currently in the US, who would probably be jailed or executed if deported to their home country, what are some advice I could give as to their digital OPSEC?
Should they completely ditch using phones, but at the cost of not having constant communications tool to potentially receive notification I.C.E. activities?
What are your advice?
(Just want to gather the knowledge so one day I might be able to help someone)
Uh... At the fear of sounding pedantic, do not go into a country illegally.
If I went to France or Guatemala, I would not be surprised if I suddenly get deported. In order for Laws to mean something, they have to be upheld.
Or are we supposed to pick and chose Laws, but only when convenient? If incorrect, can I rob you or get your Visa or MasterCard numbers? Promise not to use them.
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Uh... At the fear of sounding pedantic, do not go into a country illegally.
If I went to France or Guatemala, I would not be surprised if I suddenly get deported. In order for Laws to mean something, they have to be upheld.
Or are we supposed to pick and chose Laws, but only when convenient? If incorrect, can I rob you or get your Visa or MasterCard numbers? Promise not to use them.
Well the US should stop destroying other countries if they didn't want people to flee those countries.
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Well the US should stop destroying other countries if they didn't want people to flee those countries.
Hmmm, fair point.
I am reminded of the Monroe Doctrine and say, Operation Condor.
Touché. -
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