Plex now want to SELL your personal data
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I don't know why everyone in the selfhosting community still even mentions Plex or uses it.
It's closed source, not free; Jellyfin is a no brainer yet people still go to Plex??
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Jellyfins UI being only mouse based is garbage. Using it on Xbox for instance is terrible. Using it outside of the house is also a pain in the ass.
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You are correct, I don't care about any of that either. And I know about the boilerplate. Bud.
You need to agree with yourself about what you're arguing. Are you saying that the problem is the SSO or Plex?
Because if Plex will go tell on you it will do it based on the data they have internally, not based on any data captured by the login flow, so the SSO is not additional issue compared to using Plex without the Google login and using the email login instead.
And if you're arguing that the SSO is the problem and not Plex which you indignantly reminded me is what the thread was about, then you're arguing against yourself, because it sure seems we agree that if Plex is going to take any action against you illegally sharing files through their system (which, by the way, they are legally obligated to do) it won't be due to the Google login at all, which is just a bit of convenience and doesn't seem to provide anybody with any data they don't already have.
Once again, you are super keen on playing up hypotheticals. Once again, the biggest issue with those hypotheticals is that Plex boots me out... of Plex. I am not doing anything illegal with it or even breaching their EULA, including the paragraphs you quote (not that something being written down in an EULA makes it applicalbe, but still). I will bite that bullet and live with Jellyfin's implementation if and when that happens. Which it likely won't.
Are you saying that the problem is the SSO or Plex?
There's a problem with SSO's and there's a problem with Plex. Go back and read the conversation - that's not the problem with plex, it's a problem. Someone said they don't trust google login, and you were indignant about why that might be, and I was exceedingly patient with explaining why it's a problem. I like that jellyfin does not provide a google SSO, because I can choose a better, less invasive one as a server admin. I've not said anything contradictory here, you've just been willfully misreading shit.
Once again, the biggest issue with those hypotheticals is that Plex boots me out… of Plex.
just fucking read the words I so kindly found for you in the TOS (not that it fucking matters if it's a tos or a eula anyway). It's also not a fucking hypothetical, Plex has already been exercising this. But I don't give a fuck if you're concerned about it, i'm just telling you why so many people are taking issue with it. And given that they've already demonstrated that they collect detailed data about your personal library and watching habits, it is certainly not out of the question that they could now sell that data as a part of their new privacy policy.
In addition, Plex shall have the right to take appropriate administrative and/or legal action in the event of breach or (alleged) criminal activity, including alerting legal authorities, as it deems necessary in its sole discretion.
Unless you live in a country without a copyright agreement with the US, you are absolutely liable under this. I have no idea if you do or not, but I'd venture a guess that most people here do. Good for you if it doesn't apply.
I don't give a shit what software you use.
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Yup. And letting them collect data on what goes through their service is the cost.
Very few people care. So no, for most it is not really a no brainer. It's more effort and work pretty much everywhere. Try to use jellyfin on the Xbox client and tell me that isn't trash.
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Text:
I consent to Plex to: (i) sell certain personal information (hashed emails, advertising identifiers) to third-parties for advertising and marketing purposes; and (ii) store and/or access certain personal information (advertising identifiers, IP address, content being watched) on my device(s) and share that information with Plex’s advertising partners. This data is used to deliver personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. Your consent applies to all devices on which you have Plex installed. You can withdraw your consent at any time in
Account Settings or using this page.Soure: https://www.plex.tv/vendors/
(Might have to clear cache)Can also read about the changes here:
https://www.plex.tv/about/privacy-legal/I would simply click I Do Not Agree and then throw the computer in the trash
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a one week test run I did a while ago on a piece of software that didn’t do what I wanted.
Ok, well then why the fuck are you insisting that it's evidence of poor software design? Are you really bitching about it slugging your system without even looking at what the default settings were, let alone looking to see if they were appropriate for your setup? Like jesus christ, you can't even play a typical PC game without tweeking your video settings these days, and yet somehow a self-hosted open-source app is supposed to just guess what your setup is?
I’m not going back to Jellyfin just to verify that you’re obviously wrong about it all having been perfectly fixed up to Plex’s standards
yea, lowkey fuck plex standards. I'd sooner use a cheese grater as a razor than go back to that POS
Why do you think I didn't look at what the default settings were? I mean, I told you a bunch of times I went as far as getting into bug reports mentioning similar symptoms, you think I just didn't click the checkmark for "don't turn your computer into a doorstop"?
I didn't change any defaults I didn't need to and I didn't have a complicated task for it (and let's be honest, if I did you'd be here telling me that it's user error for trying to make it do complicated things). That doesn't mean I didn't set it up.
But yes, absolutely, a self-hosted open source app is supposed to guess what my setup is. At least as much as its paid competitor. Because that's my entire point, UX matters and being open source is no excuse for your UX sucking, people are just going to use whatever works best. All the well intentioned whining about security and independence in the world won't beat UX. So if you want more OSS get OSS devs to focus on usability.
But hey, I do appreciate the honesty of admitting this defense of Jellyfin's UX is not about Jellyfin's UX being as good as Plex's, it's an ideological argument independent from UX.
Which is fine, I share your goals. I want Jellyfin to be bigger than Plex.
But for that it needs to be as good as Plex. Or better. And it isn't.
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Seeing the replies in this thread it kinda makes me wonder what Plex actually has to do for these zealots to quit using their platform.
Like do they literally have to steal naked pictures of you and pass them around the office? Like wtf.
Need a jellyfin PS5 app
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Why do you think I didn't look at what the default settings were? I mean, I told you a bunch of times I went as far as getting into bug reports mentioning similar symptoms, you think I just didn't click the checkmark for "don't turn your computer into a doorstop"?
I didn't change any defaults I didn't need to and I didn't have a complicated task for it (and let's be honest, if I did you'd be here telling me that it's user error for trying to make it do complicated things). That doesn't mean I didn't set it up.
But yes, absolutely, a self-hosted open source app is supposed to guess what my setup is. At least as much as its paid competitor. Because that's my entire point, UX matters and being open source is no excuse for your UX sucking, people are just going to use whatever works best. All the well intentioned whining about security and independence in the world won't beat UX. So if you want more OSS get OSS devs to focus on usability.
But hey, I do appreciate the honesty of admitting this defense of Jellyfin's UX is not about Jellyfin's UX being as good as Plex's, it's an ideological argument independent from UX.
Which is fine, I share your goals. I want Jellyfin to be bigger than Plex.
But for that it needs to be as good as Plex. Or better. And it isn't.
Lmao, just fuck off. I don't have time to be your therapist.
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That’s reasonable. I’ve had pretty good experience with infuse over the years and I don’t mind paying for it. If I’m constantly using it, I feel like devs oughta get something out of it.
Edit: you made me go check my subscription. It’s only $10 billed yearly which I think is more than reasonable for something I use almost every day. If they stop developing the application or something changes then I just won’t be paying the subscription anymore. It’s not a necessary thing for jellyfin on Apple TV. It’s just one of the ones that I’ve really come back to over the years as a good video player in general.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Oops I must have misread the price. Tbh it’s the subscription fatigue, but I’m a developer myself $12.99/year is very reasonable.
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Are you saying that the problem is the SSO or Plex?
There's a problem with SSO's and there's a problem with Plex. Go back and read the conversation - that's not the problem with plex, it's a problem. Someone said they don't trust google login, and you were indignant about why that might be, and I was exceedingly patient with explaining why it's a problem. I like that jellyfin does not provide a google SSO, because I can choose a better, less invasive one as a server admin. I've not said anything contradictory here, you've just been willfully misreading shit.
Once again, the biggest issue with those hypotheticals is that Plex boots me out… of Plex.
just fucking read the words I so kindly found for you in the TOS (not that it fucking matters if it's a tos or a eula anyway). It's also not a fucking hypothetical, Plex has already been exercising this. But I don't give a fuck if you're concerned about it, i'm just telling you why so many people are taking issue with it. And given that they've already demonstrated that they collect detailed data about your personal library and watching habits, it is certainly not out of the question that they could now sell that data as a part of their new privacy policy.
In addition, Plex shall have the right to take appropriate administrative and/or legal action in the event of breach or (alleged) criminal activity, including alerting legal authorities, as it deems necessary in its sole discretion.
Unless you live in a country without a copyright agreement with the US, you are absolutely liable under this. I have no idea if you do or not, but I'd venture a guess that most people here do. Good for you if it doesn't apply.
I don't give a shit what software you use.
I have absolutely not been willfully misreading. You can't argue that the guy saying he has a problem with Google's sign-in specifically has a point and also say that the data mining happening within Plex is WAY more intrusive. If the point is whether giving Google this data is a problem it must be worse than using any of the other sign-in options. But it isn't. Your data is as widely available one way or the other. It is reasonable to think Plex's visibility over your server is too much, I accept that, particularly if your use case runs afoul of their EULA...
...but then you can't tell me "I don't trust Google", unless your argument is you trust Plex more for some reason. Which you shouldn't. It just doesn't follow.
Oh, and they do sell your data for advertising. There's an opt-in for it, though. Since we're talking about legality, it'd be a punishable offense for them to sell your data without your consent, which is why that's there, and they do need to tell you what data they collect if you request it.
And no, I am not liable under US law. There is a treaty that requires both parties to meet those requirements, but US law isn't directly applicable over here. What is applicable is our own legislation made to comply with those trade agreements. Which includes exemptions for private copy.
As far as I and every piece of legal advice I've seen about this knows, anyway. If you have a source for how apparently US law is directly applicable to any country they have a trade agreement with feel free to point me to this insane new paradigm of international law, though.
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Because of proprietary garbage, copyright law and enshittification. Sony wants you to use the software its bribers pay it to support, another symptom of our dystopian, profiteering world.
I sometimes think Jellyfin gets on Roku devices because none of the little snots at Roku's corporate office have taken notice, fallen through the cracks and forgotten about.
If it's any benefit to you, the Android box being Android allows it to sip power at an LED bulb's level of efficiency when it's idle.
I sometimes think Jellyfin gets on Roku devices because none of the little snots at Roku’s corporate office have taken notice, fallen through the cracks and forgotten about.
🤫
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Text:
I consent to Plex to: (i) sell certain personal information (hashed emails, advertising identifiers) to third-parties for advertising and marketing purposes; and (ii) store and/or access certain personal information (advertising identifiers, IP address, content being watched) on my device(s) and share that information with Plex’s advertising partners. This data is used to deliver personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. Your consent applies to all devices on which you have Plex installed. You can withdraw your consent at any time in
Account Settings or using this page.Soure: https://www.plex.tv/vendors/
(Might have to clear cache)Can also read about the changes here:
https://www.plex.tv/about/privacy-legal/Thanks for the headsup. This is the final push I needed. Been running Jellyfin for 6months or so but need to put more time into it. Plex has been great, and I’ve also been paying (though felt a little conflicted) a sub which I’m willing to do if it keeps a worthwhile project on an honest trajectory aligning with my needs and restrictions, for a good service or product. However they're now doing exactly why I started on the self hosting path. Who’s to say the third party is jot going to be a heavy handed industry body, corrupt authority , let alone the problematic world of adsales? They’re walking a very strange line and seem very confused about their purpose. Other than the all ruining ‘growth’. Seeya plex.
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I think people feel loyalty to Plex and I understand why. I even understand why they're charging for self-hosting considering their costs of delivering the dynamic DNS, software development, content info, etc. But being closed source, VC funded, and with their core product an increasingly small part of their business, it's all a powerful recipe for enshittification. Tech Altar has talked before about how enthusiast brands often betray their users. Jellyfin was not a trivial set up for remote access, but I've really been happy with it, and I like having the peace of mind of having control over how it works
I set up tailscale for remote access and it was pretty easy and painless. Maybe not as "average user" simple as plex, but no harder than setting up lan games to play across the internet that non techy people were doing in my high school 20 years ago.
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Jellyfin is hardly a no-brainer. I set it up out of curiosity a few weeks ago and my first question was how do I give access to my friends and family. So I searched, and all of the results were talking about setting up a VPN or a reverse proxy or whatever. Man, I just want to tell my mom "install this app on your tv and log in", which is exactly what Plex does.
I get that Plex is enshittifying, but pretending Jellyfin is a drop-in replacement is delusional.
Jellyfin is a fully self hosted drop in. That means it's up to the server operator to handle everything. You would still tell your mom to just install the Jellyfin app on her TV with the one additional step in your server address which you would tell her.
But yes, you as the operator have to do some extra things like implementating a reverse proxy and if hosting out of your home make necessary network configuration changes to accommodate this access.
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Can someone clue me in on the reason why anyone would prefer Plex instead of Jellyfin?
TV apps.
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"Hashed emails". Besides the fact that they can match up a hash from one source to a hash from another source to link them to the same person (they never said they'd salt them), emails often have enough predictability to break the hash. Assuming they all end in "@gmail.com", "@outlook.com", or "@yahoo.com" will get you the vast majority of emails out there. Unlike a good password scheme, people don't shove a lot of random data into their email addresses.
Was about to say this.
I saw a small-time project using hashed phone numbers and emails a while ago, where assume stupidity instead of malice was a viable explanation.
In this case however, Plex is large enough and has to care about securiry enough that they either
did this on purpose to make it sound better, as a marketing move,
did not show this to their security experts,
or chose to ignore concerns by those experts and likely others (turning it into the first option basically)There is no option where someone did not either knowingly do or provoke this.
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I would simply click I Do Not Agree and then throw the computer in the trash
wrote last edited by [email protected]I just hit no, and everything still works fine afaik
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I am a die-hard Jellyfin user, but I still haven't found a proper way to index and stream my music library with it. As far as i know, Plex is still better at that.
I've recently had really good luck with Finamp on Android at least. With the recent support of time lyrics in Jellyfin and Finamp's redesign I've been using that to stream my Flac audio files. Works quite well with separate collections as well. Though, to this day I still have to force close it more times than I like to get the UI to refresh after closing it. Plexamp was tough to lose when I swapped many years ago, but the third party space has slowly been closing that gap over the years.
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I have absolutely not been willfully misreading. You can't argue that the guy saying he has a problem with Google's sign-in specifically has a point and also say that the data mining happening within Plex is WAY more intrusive. If the point is whether giving Google this data is a problem it must be worse than using any of the other sign-in options. But it isn't. Your data is as widely available one way or the other. It is reasonable to think Plex's visibility over your server is too much, I accept that, particularly if your use case runs afoul of their EULA...
...but then you can't tell me "I don't trust Google", unless your argument is you trust Plex more for some reason. Which you shouldn't. It just doesn't follow.
Oh, and they do sell your data for advertising. There's an opt-in for it, though. Since we're talking about legality, it'd be a punishable offense for them to sell your data without your consent, which is why that's there, and they do need to tell you what data they collect if you request it.
And no, I am not liable under US law. There is a treaty that requires both parties to meet those requirements, but US law isn't directly applicable over here. What is applicable is our own legislation made to comply with those trade agreements. Which includes exemptions for private copy.
As far as I and every piece of legal advice I've seen about this knows, anyway. If you have a source for how apparently US law is directly applicable to any country they have a trade agreement with feel free to point me to this insane new paradigm of international law, though.
You can’t argue that the guy saying he has a problem with Google’s sign-in specifically has a point and also say that the data mining happening within Plex is WAY more intrusive.
Those are not mutually exclusive statements. In fact, mostly it just makes you an idiot for not having a problem with either.
It is worse than an auth method that isn't maintained by a known data whore like google. It's substantially worse when you're using it with another data whore service. For those of us who administrate remote services and care about not being beholden to google's data addiction, it is absolutely not a good thing to provide it as the default auth method, which is what the OP was saying. Even if jellyfin included it, I would immediately disable it. Especially since, as a server administrator, I have a vested interest in keeping the activity of that server private. Even if the specific details of the media on it aren't exposed, I don't want any party with conflicting interests to my own to know what users are associated with my server. Just having a dozen or so users connected through jellyfin to my IP would be enough for a motivated legal entity to look at me, and I have more than just a private media server to worry about. Is it likely to happen? Probably not. But why would I even risk it?
If you have a source for how apparently US law is directly applicable to any country they have a trade agreement with feel free to point me to this insane new paradigm of international law, though.
I don't have a source for you, but typically using a US-based platform can give US authorities a jurisdictional hook, especially if the rights holders are US-based or can show commercial harm. That is why US based web services are extraordinarily strict with all of their users, even those who live outside the US. I'm not even saying it's common, just that it could happen. I seem to remember operators of p2p services getting nabbed at customs while traveling back in the day - it wasn't illegal where they were, but it sure as fuck was in the US and they were extremely interested in putting the kabash on it.
No question that plex is a more convenient service, but if you have the tech literacy to manage something that's completely private that is only marginally more complicated, why the fuck wouldn't you? Then again, maybe if you think you're more tech literate than you are, it doesn't seem all that simple.
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I think people feel loyalty to Plex and I understand why. I even understand why they're charging for self-hosting considering their costs of delivering the dynamic DNS, software development, content info, etc. But being closed source, VC funded, and with their core product an increasingly small part of their business, it's all a powerful recipe for enshittification. Tech Altar has talked before about how enthusiast brands often betray their users. Jellyfin was not a trivial set up for remote access, but I've really been happy with it, and I like having the peace of mind of having control over how it works
Jellyfin was not a trivial set up for remote access
So, forwarding a port on your router was a difficult process?
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Don’t be smug.
I'll take any chance, even one involving docker
