Mozilla under fire for Firefox AI "bloat" that blows up CPU and drains battery
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A huge problem with America's and many other economic systems is that companies are incentivized to undercut the competition, use a monopoly growth model, acquire or push out competitors, and then screw the customer when the competitors are either gone or irrelevant.
Without guardrails, the bubble will burst and some other "affordable solution" will just show up to replace streaming, and then we'll start all over again before it enshittifies too. But there won't be guardrails anytime soon, and most refuse or are unable to vote with their wallets, so we're just screwed.
I don't know what the solution is, but as a consumer, I'm exhausted. I wish there were options to just buy products, sometimes more expensive ones to keep a steady, sustainable business model, for piece of mind that the company won't stab me in the back someday.
wrote last edited by [email protected]In a perfect world? Yeah, I would love to just spend money and get what I want forever.
The problem is that most of these products would never exist without external funding. We all remember Microsoft getting slapped hard for bundling internet explorer and the like in the 90s. What people don't remember is just how GOOD IE was... because it was largely subsidized by the OS et al that everyone bought because it was that damned good. Netscape was very much A Thing and anything else was more or less trash.
Same thing with the idea of "use a monopoly growth model". What is the alternative? Actively making a product worse because everyone else is? Because that is collusion. Hell, if anything, browsers for the past few years have been exactly what we would theoretically want. Google are the de facto monopoly. They literally pumped insane amounts of cash into Mozilla et al to fund their competition so there would actually BE competition.
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Mozilla is no longer about making a great browser. Mozilla is about making sure their Google bucks come in each year without fail.
They don't work for consumers anymore -- they work for Google.Throughout the years, the market share of Firefox has shank and shank and their C-Suite has continued giving themselves raises.
Mozilla Inc. has been very sick for a long time. It's a shame that one of the last pieces of honest competition for web browsers belongs to them, because I'm not sure how much longer they will be able to shamble on like this.
As somebody who is out of the loop a bit here, how is Morzilla making money through Googhe?
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In a perfect world? Yeah, I would love to just spend money and get what I want forever.
The problem is that most of these products would never exist without external funding. We all remember Microsoft getting slapped hard for bundling internet explorer and the like in the 90s. What people don't remember is just how GOOD IE was... because it was largely subsidized by the OS et al that everyone bought because it was that damned good. Netscape was very much A Thing and anything else was more or less trash.
Same thing with the idea of "use a monopoly growth model". What is the alternative? Actively making a product worse because everyone else is? Because that is collusion. Hell, if anything, browsers for the past few years have been exactly what we would theoretically want. Google are the de facto monopoly. They literally pumped insane amounts of cash into Mozilla et al to fund their competition so there would actually BE competition.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Same thing with the idea of “use a monopoly growth model”. What is the alternative? Actively making a product worse because everyone else is? Because that is collusion.
This question really highlights the danger of the growth-at-all-costs model in forcing every company to race to the bottom when one company does. The future of the human race may one day depend on killing technological progress and emphasizing stability over profits.
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Because people seem to have a special hate boner for Firefox on here.
And please don't call me bro.
Edit: hate not hat
There's a lot of negativity from certain users/communities on software/services that are mostly good but have imperfections. I rarely if ever see any recommendations for alternatives that actually make sense when this happens.
Firefox and Proton are two very common targets. Sure, they are both not perfect, but they are both offering a solution that does not enrich the current oppressive market leader and they do a pretty solid job at it.
Yes, flaws deserve to be criticized, but there's such a thing as too much.
It's tiring.
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Bixby was not llm based
I'm not really sure how that really makes any difference though. I'm not defending their decision I'm just saying that it's been around for a while now.
I've just pressed my power button five times and it does call, what I'm assuming is, emergency number. It's the wrong one for my country (genius Samsung) so God knows what that would actually do, but it doesn't auto call I have to actually press the call button. Maybe they received some user feedback?
Seems a bit pointless given the fact that I have to press the button five times to call the emergency services but their phone number is only three digits long.
That's goofy as hell that the emergency number isn't localized. I think the idea that pressing a physical button 5 times quickly is faster than having to look at the phone and select options. Idk, though, I don't use it.
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As somebody who is out of the loop a bit here, how is Morzilla making money through Googhe?
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where is this AI bloat exactly? I use Firefox every day and see no difference
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There's a lot of negativity from certain users/communities on software/services that are mostly good but have imperfections. I rarely if ever see any recommendations for alternatives that actually make sense when this happens.
Firefox and Proton are two very common targets. Sure, they are both not perfect, but they are both offering a solution that does not enrich the current oppressive market leader and they do a pretty solid job at it.
Yes, flaws deserve to be criticized, but there's such a thing as too much.
It's tiring.
That sums it up pretty nicely.
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Finally using Firefox ESR helped me
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There's a lot of negativity from certain users/communities on software/services that are mostly good but have imperfections. I rarely if ever see any recommendations for alternatives that actually make sense when this happens.
Firefox and Proton are two very common targets. Sure, they are both not perfect, but they are both offering a solution that does not enrich the current oppressive market leader and they do a pretty solid job at it.
Yes, flaws deserve to be criticized, but there's such a thing as too much.
It's tiring.
Purists being copted by shadowy corpo astroturfing campaigns, name a more iconic duo.
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where is this AI bloat exactly? I use Firefox every day and see no difference
Same here, I'm on 141.0 Linux. No tab grouping unless I group them. I do see the ai button but have not bothered with it.
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where is this AI bloat exactly? I use Firefox every day and see no difference
wrote last edited by [email protected]I remember tab groups showing up one day by themselves maybe a week ago, and then I quickly clicked about two buttons and now they're totally gone and I almost forgot they were a thing. But likely if I had summarily clicked 2 different buttons it might have been turned on without me realizing it, and that would cause the model to be downloaded and the CPU cycles to be spent (at least if I kept the tab groups on)
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Honestly if that is it, it is understandable. This AI nonsense, however, is plainly a waste of money and resources, Mozilla's and their users'.
Depends what you mean by this AI nonsense. Some of it is great. Offline translation in Firefox is great, as is the enhanced screen reader for blind people.
Chat bot integration less so, but it's opt-in so I don't bother getting myself worked up about it.
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Why not add this features as browser extension?
Extending and managing extension APIs and extensions also comes at a cost. I certainly wouldn't be against that - but I'm not familiar with the technical details or cost of the features involved.
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Because people seem to have a special hate boner for Firefox on here.
And please don't call me bro.
Edit: hate not hat
Just use a fork. I don't know why I would use vanilla Firefox when there are so many great forks out there that have cool extra features.
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Right, I sympathize with that.
…But also it’s ridiculous. Like why should including a feature with “AI” in it get them VC money? Even if that’s kinda reality?
TBH they should just become a contributor to llama.cpp and market that somehow.
Like why should including a feature with “AI” in it get them VC money?
Spoken like someone who's never interacted with Silicon Valley VCs... just imagine someone with tons of a money, a moderately competent business background, and very little understanding of even the basics of technology that you and I take for granted. And then make them stupid and greedy.
"AI? Yes please! Here's some money, I've heard of Firefox so I know you're good for it." It's not really any more complicated than that, I don't think.
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Like why should including a feature with “AI” in it get them VC money?
Spoken like someone who's never interacted with Silicon Valley VCs... just imagine someone with tons of a money, a moderately competent business background, and very little understanding of even the basics of technology that you and I take for granted. And then make them stupid and greedy.
"AI? Yes please! Here's some money, I've heard of Firefox so I know you're good for it." It's not really any more complicated than that, I don't think.
Well, exactly. Then why the pretense?
They could contribute to some existing local inference effort, do actually useful dev work, and slap their brand on it. It would both be cheaper and "look" better to VCs.
Basically do what ollama's doing but less shady.
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Just use a fork. I don't know why I would use vanilla Firefox when there are so many great forks out there that have cool extra features.
Forks get security patches with delay so I prefer to use vanilla Firefox and just disable the things I don't like, it's not much work.
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where is this AI bloat exactly? I use Firefox every day and see no difference
There is none, this is all AI=bad knee-jerk reaction. From what I can tell, so far Firefox has 3 ML-based systems implemented:
- Site / text translation - fully local, small model, requires manual action from user
- Tab grouping suggestions - fully local, small model, requires manual action from user
- Image alt text generation (when adding images to a PDF) - fully local, small model, looks like it's enabled by default but can be turned off directly in the modal that appears when adding alt text
All of these models are small enough to be quickly run locally on mobile devices with minimal wait time. The CPU spikes appear to be a bug in the inference module implementation - not an intended behavior.
Firefox also provides UI for connecting to cloud-based chatbots on a sidebar, but they need to be manually enabled to be used. The sidebar is also customizable so anyone who doesn't want this button there can just remove it. There's also a setting in about:config that removes it harder.
I actually really like the way Mozilla is introducing these features. I recently had to visit another country's post office site and having the ability to just instantly translate it directly on my device is great.
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Well, exactly. Then why the pretense?
They could contribute to some existing local inference effort, do actually useful dev work, and slap their brand on it. It would both be cheaper and "look" better to VCs.
Basically do what ollama's doing but less shady.
Yeah. There would be a way to do it that I feel like might potentially be useful. The described method (doing clustering instead of just having a similarity threshold to group tabs together, vectorizing the entire tab title through a whole fucking network instead of just tokenizing it and calling two tabs similar if they have uncommon tokens that are within a certain similarity level) really sounds to me like people who have no real idea what they're doing, just being "ML experts" all over the codebase and fucking things up, and probably walking away very proud of themselves while helping themselves to bunches and bunches of the Mozilla Foundation's Google-money.
