What do people use for a shelf-stable backup
-
exFAT is a newer and viable alternative to FAT32, with better size limits and some pretty good cross-platform capabilities. That said, if your primary access is through Windows, NTFS may have some better features and is at least read-only on other platforms.
-
This is why I can’t/don’t have a lot of the “best practices” in my family archive. I’m not encrypting local drives, I’m not using BTRFS, or a ZFS pool. If I did I’d have to ensure my Will provided for the lawyer to hire a tech shop to help recover them. No, exFAT and NTFS, in the clear so those left behind can just plug them in and get to making their own copies. Otherwise the archive would die with me.
Does that mean someone could steal my drives and go through my family photos? Sure. I hope it brings them much guilt, something a garbled encrypted drive could never do.
-
I personally prefer printed out books of our photos. We are missing quite a few years due to life getting in the way, but the end goal is to have actual books of photos with titles like 'Our family in 2018' and 'Sports of our first born at 2022'. In europe we have a company called 'ifolor' where you can design and order printouts of your photos. They're not really cheap, but the quality is pretty damn good. And their offerings go to pretty decent sized photo albums, up to A3 size and 180 pages (which is over 200€). So, not cheap, but at least so far their quality has been worth the money.
And they have cheaper options too, but personally I think it's worth the money to get the best quality you can for printouts. And even the smallest and cheapest option is far superior over not having anything at all due to hardware failure or whatever.
-
I don't use Windows, I'm just thinking of someone needing to be able to pick up and use a drive, and for most people it's going to be Windows.
Maybe I just need to leave instructions that specify it needs to be my laptop they use to get the photos off.
-
I've done some photo books in the past. A lot of work though, I prefer the idea of printed photos since it's less work. Plus if they are the only surviving photos, then it's nice to have them in an easily scannable format.
I came across this container, where each of the smaller containers holds 100 photos. Seems like it could be a good option, one container per year with 100 photos in each. 12 years per box. Get say 6 of them to cover the rest of my life (one could probably cover my life to date, a lot less photos before I had kids), put in a larger container that also holds a couple of (mirrored) hard drives. One big time capsule.
-
Thinking about this, the only ancient information we are still able to access is painted or edged on stone or clay. How about some sort huge wall with thousands of QRcode like engravings?
-
Haha like
::: spoiler spoilers for the three body problem series
at the the end of the third three body problem book where they need to write something that will last for millions of years so they carve a message in huge letters into the rock
:::But I'm a millennial so if you think I own a huge amount of land you would be wrong
-
For local backups it depends on what you want to have:
- The cheapest option is a usb or thumb drive. But you have to regularly plug it in and copy your backup on it.
- The lazy option is to buy a NAS and configure a backup job that regularly creates a backup. Versioned, incremental, differentials and full backups are possible as is WORM to add a bit of extra security. You can configure a NAS to only turn on specified times, do a backup and then turn off again. This will increase protection against encrypting malware. WORM also helps in this case.
Or just let it run 24/7, create backups every hour and install extra services on it like AI powered image analysis to identify people and objects and let it automatically tag your photos. Cool stuff! Check out QNAP and Synology or build a NAS yourself.
A NAS can also be configured to present its content in a LAN by itself. Any computer will automatically connect to it if the access isn't secured by user/password or certificate.
I recommend buying a NAS.
-
This will do nothing at all. Drives don't die by rust. They usually die because the motor somehow can't get the discs to spin. Very often dry lube is the reason. That can occur if you leave the drive off too long.
-
So, I have a server that has a backup drive, automated backups, and replication to laptops as well as cloud storage in Backblaze B2. What I'm looking for is something completely separated from the automation that is a backup for if I screw up the automation, as well as a backup that a layman can access (i.e. no encryption, media that is usable by anyone). I have had some very bad experiences with flash drives but I am thinking a HDD with SATA->USB cable attached (I already have the cable).
From the other conversations in this thread mentioning many options, the hard drive option seems the best for my use case, but I've also been convinced of the benefit of printing out some physical photos as well, so my current plan is to get a big container, put a couple of mirrored hard drives in there (to validate against each other as protection against bit-rot), and print 100 photos each year to add to the container to have an extra layer of redundancy.
-
Any file systems Windows can read out-of-the-box are no good file systems. What Windows read? FAT and NTFS. Former is so basic it has no mechanisms to detect errors and bitrot and the later one is a mess.
You should stick to ext4, btrfs and zfs.If you want to make if fool-proof then add a sticker with 'bring me to a computer shop to access my content'.
-
I have considered that exact message. It does seem making it easily plug and play may be out of the question if I want the error correction capabilities.
-
Btrfs and zfs are self-healing.
You can make a script to check for errors and autocorrection yourself but that needs at least a second hdd. On both drives are the same data and a file or database with the checksums of the data. The script then compares the actual checksums of the two copies and the db checksum. If they match -> perfect. If they don't match the file where there are two matching checksum is the good one and replaces the faulty one or corrects the db entry, whichever is defect. That's it. It doesn't have to be more complicated.
-
Printing the photos won't help much. After 20 or so years they are all discolored. You can't prevent that.
I think SSDs might be the best storage medium for you. Consumer-grade ssds have a 1 year data retention when powered off. That means at least once per year you have to turn it on and copy the data around one time to refresh the cells. This way it'll probably last several 100 years.
You can't exactly make it fool-proof. Outside people will never know what you did to create your backup and what to do to access it. Who knows if the drives file system or file types are still readable after 20 years? Who knows if SATA and USB connectors are still around after that time?
For example it is very likely that SATA will disappear within the next 10-15 years as hdds are becoming more and more an enterprise thing and consumers are switching to M.2 ssds. -
Yip I think this is the setup I will want (probably both - zfs + a custom script for validation, just to be sure). Two mirrored drives. I do need to read up some about zfs mirroring to understand it a bit more but I think I have a path to follow now.
-
Then I'd go with FAT on a USB, which should be plenty portable into the future. You'll want to replace it every 5-10 years, and check on it every other year or so.
That's about as easy to use as I can think of. Decades down the road, physical media like DVDs and tapes may be difficult to find readers for, but USB is versatile enough that someone is bound to have access. Micro SD cards may also be a good option, as long as you keep a couple USB readers around.
-
I have a terrible track record with USB sticks, including completely losing a stack of photos because of a USB stick.
I'm now thinking the benefits of a nice error-correcting file system probably outweigh the benefits of using a widely supported one. So I might use a pair of mirrored hard drives with SATA->USB cable, then include instructions along the lines of "plug into my linux laptop to access, or take to a computer repair show if you can't work it out".
-
The printed photos are only there as an extra layer of redundancy in case everything else fails. It's ok if they get discoloured a bit, it never put me off going through my grandparents' suitcases of photos. Ideally the digital files survive, if not then at least there is something rather than nothing.
Is SSD really necessary? Everything I search up says SSDs have worse retention than HDD in cold storage. A couple TB of HDD is pretty cheap these days, and seems like a better cold storage option.
You can’t exactly make it fool-proof. Outside people will never know what you did to create your backup and what to do to access it. Who knows if the drives file system or file types are still readable after 20 years? Who knows if SATA and USB connectors are still around after that time?
Yes, so now I'm thinking a rotation cycle. About every 5 years replace the drives with new ones, copy over all data. If newer technology exists then I can move to that newer technology. This way I'm keeping it up to date as long as I can.
For example it is very likely that SATA will disappear within the next 10-15 years as hdds are becoming more and more an enterprise thing and consumers are switching to M.2 ssds.
Does this matter if I have a SATA->USB cable stored with it? Other than if USB A standards change or get abandoned for USB C, but that should be covered by the review every 5 years.
-
Is SSD really necessary? Everything I search up says SSDs have worse retention than HDD in cold storage. A couple TB of HDD is pretty cheap these days, and seems like a better cold storage option.
SSDs are by design less susceptible by design. No moving parts and able to work in much harsher conditions than hdds will ever be able to. The standard set by JEDEC requires every consumer ssd to have a 1 year data retention while powered off at 30 °C (I think). That's the minimum it has to archieve but usually they are better than that. Do not buy the cheapest thumb drives because they contain the all the crap that wasn't good enough to make ssds from it.
Btw you need to fire hdds up regularly too or the motor gets stuck. I think every 3-6 months was the recommendation.Yes, so now I’m thinking a rotation cycle. About every 5 years replace the drives with new ones, copy over all data.
Don't make it flat every 5 years. Let a software monitor the SMART values of the drives and send notifications if the values indicate an increased change of a dying disc/ssd.
Does this matter if I have a SATA->USB cable stored with it?
Those are the first that fail, followed by the usb controller chip in the tray. Keep it as simple as possible. Removable trays are probably the best way but I'm not sure how much wear they can take.Do not buy 2.5" drives. This class will die out soon
. There were no new hdds introduced in years and ssds are often replaced by M.2 ones because of the faster connection. -
Completely understandable. I say this as someone with way more photos in digital only media than I should.
