Why hasn't anyone tried making a combustion engine using fusion instead of a spark plug?
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So you mean more like a power plant? Are you thinking like brayton cycle, rankine cycle, or both (combined cycle)?
I don't know much about fusion, but a big part of how a brayton works at that scale is air. For a jet engine the combustion expands, spinning the turbine or afterwards, and this spins the axially connected compressor section which sucks and squeezes air prior to the combustion chamber. A piston engine would be less continuous, so might be better suited? But in any case, this relies on whether fusion moves a shitload of air like a combustion engine does, (and like I said idk if it does,) and if it does then I guess it could be possible so long as pressures and temperatures stayed within metallurgical limits. I also don't know how economical it could be, but let's pretend that this is entirely exploratory and costs don't matter. I'm not gonna shit on your idea because the truth is that I don't know and you could be predicting a breakthrough idea 100 or 50 or 20 years ahead. Is fusion something that can quickly explode like in a piston engine in the first place or would it be better to run continuously through a turbine? Is that even possible? Idk.
Regarding the rankine cycle, that's the assumed application of fusion power. It's just the newest, best idea for how to boil water to superheated steam to spin turbines and condense back to feedwater. I only even bring this up because you specifically mentioned a steam generator, and that really only makes sense if you're utilizing the rankine cycle. Combined cycle would be using that piston/turbine engine thing from earlier but recycle the exhaust heat to a HRSG which loops to a steam turbine and condenser and back. But you need a large volume of fairly continuous hot exhaust flow for this, so it's wholly dependent on that thing I said I don't know lol.
We need some input from people who know something about fusion. I don't really know how we would control fusion while throwing a shitload of air into it and getting an even bigger shitload of air out the other end. Without that input, idk how anything other than rankine could be managed.
I tried to draw what I am imagining.
Does this help you see what I am thinking of?
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I searched the engine briefly, and found no mention of anyone thinking of this.
This post comes from this comment of mine.
In my original comment, I note that I immediately think the strain would blow the entire thing a part.
What are your reasons of why you think would not work, or why no one has tried, or maybe you know someone who did try?
Imagine blowing a head gasket on your fusion powered Honda and having hard X-rays leak out from your hood
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I searched the engine briefly, and found no mention of anyone thinking of this.
This post comes from this comment of mine.
In my original comment, I note that I immediately think the strain would blow the entire thing a part.
What are your reasons of why you think would not work, or why no one has tried, or maybe you know someone who did try?
It was kinda thought of in the '50s. Ford's concept the Nucleon was to use a fission reaction to heat water, which was used in a steam turbine engine. One of the issues folks worried about was, what happens in a crash? No, no one with a clue worried about a nuclear explosion, but the release of radioactive material would have been a real concern.
Some of this might change with the use of fusion. But, it's going to be a long time before a fusion reactor would be small/light enough to slap in a car. At the moment, we haven't really demonstrated a reactor which can commercially produce a net output of power. There has been some small scale experiments which technically produce more power than is used to initiate the fusion; but, that also relied a bit on an accounting trick (they only counted the energy of the lasers themselves, not the total energy used).
Also, when you get down to it, this is the ultimate goal of electric vehicles. Maybe someday, most of our electricity will come from grid scale fusion reactors. Those will charge the batteries which drive EVs. Moving the reactor into the car itself could happen some day. On the other hand, considering how poorly some folks maintain their cars now, would your really trust them to maintain a reactor? Again, not worried about explosions or anything silly. But, the release of radioactive material might still be a concern. It's probably safe to just use batteries and keep the reactors locked up in large facilities.
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I searched the engine briefly, and found no mention of anyone thinking of this.
This post comes from this comment of mine.
In my original comment, I note that I immediately think the strain would blow the entire thing a part.
What are your reasons of why you think would not work, or why no one has tried, or maybe you know someone who did try?
There is one variant called Magnetized Target Fusion that kinda-sorta works like this, where the "cylinders" are made of liquid Lithium. On each "stroke" of the engine:
- 500 rotating chambers of liquid Lithium are spun until they form cavities of specific shape/depth
- Fusion fuel is injected via compressed gas, kinda like a fuel injector
- 500 pistons situated at the site of each spinning Li pool are precisely synchronized to push the liquid metal inward
- Using timing and pressure variations, this changes the shape of the collapsing vortex from a cylinder into a sphere
- The intense pressure forces the fuel to undergo fusion, pushing the pistons back out and distorting the Lithium chambers
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I searched the engine briefly, and found no mention of anyone thinking of this.
This post comes from this comment of mine.
In my original comment, I note that I immediately think the strain would blow the entire thing a part.
What are your reasons of why you think would not work, or why no one has tried, or maybe you know someone who did try?
Because fusion is a scam.
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I searched the engine briefly, and found no mention of anyone thinking of this.
This post comes from this comment of mine.
In my original comment, I note that I immediately think the strain would blow the entire thing a part.
What are your reasons of why you think would not work, or why no one has tried, or maybe you know someone who did try?
There are similar projects like this big fusion gun thing
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I tried to draw what I am imagining.
Does this help you see what I am thinking of?
I don't know of any piston that can initiate a fusion reaction, but that doesn't mean it's never going to be possible. But I think that such a thing would take teams of top researchers decades to figure out with any sort of reliability.
Regarding the rankine cycle, the diagram would need to be much more detailed. From what I am understanding of your diagram, no it couldn't work that way. I don't know a lot about fusion, but from my experience in fission nuclear power plants and combined cycle natural gas plants, I can make some assumptions about what to expect from a rankine cycle plant regardless of fuel source. You would need to ensure that only superheated (dry) steam is ever touching the steam turbine blades, and there is a ton of essential equipment that does exactly that. There are a ton of resources out there to learn more about this, and I'd recommend searching "rankine cycle explained" on YouTube to get started. General overview stuff might touch on things like drums and reheaters and condensers and vacuum pumps, but every little piece like that could use its own deep dive, really. It's fascinating stuff.
Overall, I think there is already a general understanding of how to make a fusion rankine cycle power plant work, and it's now just a matter of getting a sustainable reaction and then finding the optimal design and operation to safely and reliably maximize the extraction of that thermal energy to perform work. Should this be more like a BWR or a PWR plant? What do refuel outages look like? What sort of preventive maintenance will be required? What sort of hazards will workers be exposed to, and how can we mitigate that?
I'd love to see commercial fusion reactor plants in my lifetime, but I don't think I'll see it. We're pretty close to seeing fission SMR plants really get going. As much as I hate AI shit, their data centers are power hungry af which has pushed these companies to think about providing their own on-site power to relieve strain from the grid, and these SMRs are kinda perfect for this. If we could see that scaled up or at least batched into array designs, we buy a lot of time to figure out fusion while shifting to a greener energy solution or at least replace the existing and very much aging fission plants we already have. And maybe SMRs can teach us something about fusion along the way.
Stay curious
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I don't know of any piston that can initiate a fusion reaction, but that doesn't mean it's never going to be possible. But I think that such a thing would take teams of top researchers decades to figure out with any sort of reliability.
Regarding the rankine cycle, the diagram would need to be much more detailed. From what I am understanding of your diagram, no it couldn't work that way. I don't know a lot about fusion, but from my experience in fission nuclear power plants and combined cycle natural gas plants, I can make some assumptions about what to expect from a rankine cycle plant regardless of fuel source. You would need to ensure that only superheated (dry) steam is ever touching the steam turbine blades, and there is a ton of essential equipment that does exactly that. There are a ton of resources out there to learn more about this, and I'd recommend searching "rankine cycle explained" on YouTube to get started. General overview stuff might touch on things like drums and reheaters and condensers and vacuum pumps, but every little piece like that could use its own deep dive, really. It's fascinating stuff.
Overall, I think there is already a general understanding of how to make a fusion rankine cycle power plant work, and it's now just a matter of getting a sustainable reaction and then finding the optimal design and operation to safely and reliably maximize the extraction of that thermal energy to perform work. Should this be more like a BWR or a PWR plant? What do refuel outages look like? What sort of preventive maintenance will be required? What sort of hazards will workers be exposed to, and how can we mitigate that?
I'd love to see commercial fusion reactor plants in my lifetime, but I don't think I'll see it. We're pretty close to seeing fission SMR plants really get going. As much as I hate AI shit, their data centers are power hungry af which has pushed these companies to think about providing their own on-site power to relieve strain from the grid, and these SMRs are kinda perfect for this. If we could see that scaled up or at least batched into array designs, we buy a lot of time to figure out fusion while shifting to a greener energy solution or at least replace the existing and very much aging fission plants we already have. And maybe SMRs can teach us something about fusion along the way.
Stay curious
thank you!
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Updated post title to reflect your knowledge, thank you!
I think you are missing the point of fusion as we know it.
Pistons are pushed by small controlled explosions a thousand or so times a minute. Each explosion pushes the piston, which makes the crankshaft turn.
Fusion, however is a continuous source of heat to produce steam that turns a turbine to make electricity. It's meant to be an alternative to nuclear power just with much less danger involved. Fusion can't melt down like nuclear. Fusion also would require very little fuel to keep going.
Unless I am missing the point of your update, I just don't think it's possible to make a fusion piston. I believe the only way is to use fusion to make steam to power a turbine.
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Diesel engines don't use spark plugs, they use pressure to ignite the fuel. What purpose would fusion serve here?
As for gas engines, why? Starting fusion reactions takes an insane amount of energy, we have yet to make one that produces more power than is put in. Spark plugs are much more efficient.
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