I guess it's time for all the "protest voters" to either admit they never gave a shit about Palestine or admit they fell for Russian propaganda.

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(Uhh, my guy, he likes nazis...)

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I wonder if 1M other people just like you are saying that.

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Presumably the same stuff they did for the last year?

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You were so worried looking at bed A you didn't think you'd be forced into bed B

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Even an extra million split between the greens, libertarians, socialist workers, etc isn't significant compared to the 70+million that the Democrats and Republicans get.

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Watching you comment, I despair that dems didnt learn a damned thing from this election loss.

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Then don't support the government and think about another solution.

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The genocide started 15 months ago and has been steadily supplied and defended by Biden/Harris

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Supplying the munitions for a genocidal carpet bombing campaign? That's better?

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And what lesson would that be? Because I've seen that line of thinking parroted a suspicious amount lately and I've seen one person actually explain what they mean.

So enlighten me.

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Thanks, that what I meant and reading it again the sentence structure is twisted !

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What Dem leadership should have learned:

Have to get back to operating from a platform, not vibes or cult of personality.
No more genocide. Get back to leading from principle rather than realpolitik. Explicitely ditch the far right zionists-- we can make money elsewhere, and we are not a far right party.
Be the party of the people. Lower and middle class votes are needed to win. Get back to expanding social programs.
Stop insulting people. We don't "go high when they go low", we kick their ass wherever they are, but we don't insult voters, and we also dont self-censor for comity's sake.
To move fwd and reunite the coalition that is the Dem party, we have to acknowledge that the party hasnt been doing what the people want, and was also engaging in a genocide. No more weasel words around that. Lets get it over with.
Act like the party is a coalition, not a centrally controlled imperium. Stop kicking the left in the face.
Dont look for votes form the right.
Dont lionize bipartisanship as a goal unto itself.
Create metrics for success and be accountable for them.
Publish a long term plan for the party, and candidates who wont adhere to it shouldnt be voted for.
Kick out the right wingers. When we get Bidens/Manchins/Liebermans not towing the line, remove them from their committees and dont fund their. re-elections.
No more "seniority" in congressional leadership appointments. Go by merit.
term limits for leadership appointments.
A code of ethics. For starters, dems shouldnt ever be trading stocks the legislate on. IT soils the image of the whole party when individuals are corrupt, and that needs to stop.
Set a mandatory retirement age for Dems. 70 sounds reasonable. After that you leave. If you are a judge you leave after 70 as soon as a dem administration can appoint your successor. No more waiting for death/incapacity and hurting your party when you go out that way. Lets get these people thinking of the party over their own arrogance.

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By abstaining you allowed the greater evil to prevail

I'm heartened to hear that you at least understand that Biden/Harris was evil. Its a good start.

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Much worse off now? Since the ceasefire?

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Actual leftists KNEW that already. Kamala, Biden, the majority of the DNC - they're all corrupt corporatists.

But the situation the USA was in was one of minimizing overall damage. And with the corporatists, there was still a small chance of gaining some control from them peacefully via elections, if simply because more left leaning people can at least run under the Democrat moniker.

With the fascists, that opportunity is gone. By allowing them to win, not only do you worsen the genocide occuring in Israel (if not ensured Israel from achieving it entirely), but also just got killed a bunch of other people and hurt a huge amount of minorities in the USA as well.

Not voting didn't stop the genocide and never would have, but it did guarantee that it gets worse while hurting other innocents outside of Palestine as well. If you didn't vote for Kamala (which literally means "horrible" in Finnish), you're a dumbass, because you allowed a greater evil to prevail. Especially since I know many of y'all abstainers are still paying taxes anyway and funding the genocides either way.

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Ah yes. Silly me. I'm sure Palestinians are looking forward to living happily ever after under trumps protection. This whole "ethnic cleansing" thing is just the news media I'm sure.

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No lets circle back to exactly what you said. How are they "much worse off"?

So, "silly you", you admit you're full of it then? They are in the same boat and the brutality you cited under trump is the same brutality they had under Biden is it not?

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But the situation the USA was in was one of minimizing overall damage

thats logical in a narrow scoping, but I think its reasonable to also consider the longer term effects of the 'left' party in the US continuing a track of far right wing actions over time and how that changes the Democratic party and likely destroys it. No one will vote for republican-lite or fascist lite-- those platforms always lose. The DNC doesn't understand that. Maybe a Dem leader goes off the rails and can be disavowed later, sure, but if the party stays evil for long enough, that option of disavowing the evildoers mistakes goes away and sticks to all dems, just like rolling in literal shit will do to you. For now its still an option to disavow and explicvitely reject Biden/Harris's actions, if we find the stones to throw the old pro-evil anti lower and middle class leadership out on their ass and admit they were wrong.

Sure the war crimes were destined to happen with either party after the election-- and I'd argue with similar severity. Both parties will let the zionists do whatever they want, whenever they want, to whomever they want. Both parties will also fund the zionists with weapons and money, and will run interference in the UN. But I'd rather they be done by the US republicans which gives us at least a chance to rescue the US Dems, which was badly in need of rescue. Rescue means disempowering the bad actors, which is now completed. Without a dethroning of centrism that evil direction was immutable due to the way funding steers political action in the US. So the dems had to lose or face political dissolution.

Before the election, both parties seemed inevitably doomed-- it was simply of whether it was in the very short term or in the short-medium term. Now the Dems might conceivably disavow their mistakes and correct themselves, after a trip to the woodshed for what we all should agree is a beating of the centrists that needs to occur if we are to move forward.

Either way we have a lot to answer for as a people who perpetuate this political reality, which affects the world quite a bit. The concept of collective responsibility exists, even if Americans seldom talk about it or understand it.

agnos.is Forums

I guess it's time for all the "protest voters" to either admit they never gave a shit about Palestine or admit they fell for Russian propaganda.