Economically, how can concerned Americans prepare for the worst?
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[email protected]replied to [email protected] last edited by
We'll see hopefully they have to play whackamole and keep having to go to court and waste their time.
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[email protected]replied to [email protected] last edited by
Too bad you didn't stockpile your r's
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[email protected]replied to [email protected] last edited by
You've been downvoted but this is pretty much what my elders told me.
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[email protected]replied to [email protected] last edited by
That might potentially work if you timed it exactly right but I'm skeptical of the idea of gold as a store of value, I think it will get hammered like every other asset class if we're talking about the end of the US as a liberal democracy governed by the rule of law. Especially if you have actual physical gold you need to keep secured, if things get bad enough that becomes a real liability. If its not physical gold will it still be there without the US legal system to enforce your rights? I would much rather have a pile of freeze dried food than a pile of gold or a pile of GLD ETF shares if it's actually a worse case scenario.
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[email protected]replied to [email protected] last edited by
Think of what a bar of gold is worth. 1,000,000. That's 25 pounds.
I don't have that much money so for me the weight would be significantly less. That would be super easy to conceal and head some where safe. If the US fell the gold can be converted to any currency. Even if it took a year or two for another country to pick up and be a stable place to go, the gold would still be good.
So that makes gold a solid place to store the value. Go back hundreds of years people still wanted gold. Hundreds of years from now people will probably still want gold.
If it's a serious crash but the US dollar comes back. Gold will still be a good solid place to store the value. If the US changes from dollar to something else, then gold still works.
The only question is timing the market, but to me still not a big deal since generally safe gold goes up in value.
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[email protected]replied to [email protected] last edited by
hahahahahaha. Fixed. But hey, nothing wrong with being a pepper too.
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[email protected]replied to [email protected] last edited by
Local libraries are a great way to substitute your entertainment budget for something more affordable. What's more, if you volunteer and help out you'll make a whole lot of connections who can help you back.
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[email protected]replied to [email protected] last edited by
Spend absolutely no money that you don't need to. This saves money for you and keeps it out of people's hands that don't need it. The faster the collapse, the more equal it will be.
I don't want to advise this, but I'm pulling all my money from the larger of my 401(k). (Keeping the smaller just in case it turns out I'm crazy, and if I am, I can always reinvest, with only some minor losses in time)
I bought a couple ATVs with trailers, with camo netting, working on filling those trailers with supplies and a lot of gas. I also bought an old jeep CJ7, with a trailer for the ATVs. Think lighters, camp stoves, portable solar panels, blankets, water filters, a good axe or hatchet, a couple knives, some emergency rations.
This is America. There's more guns than people. Make sure you have at least one.
The economic hardships, you won't be able to escape. When we lose hegemony/petrol dollar, it's likely to be the fastest collapse in history.
This is just a quick summary. Some of us have been planning for something like this for a decade or more. There's no way to be able to give you anything much more specific without knowing where you live or your current circumstances, experiences, or skills. But rely on any skills, training or knowledge you do have. Emphasize them and try to improve them. Make yourself a useful member of a rebuilt (small) society. I.e. growing, sewing, defense, engineering etc.
Whatever you do, do not give up. And be creative. Lighting a fire, and putting some seriously hot peppers in the fire can be a good area denial defense, light the fire and travel in the direction the wind is coming from.
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[email protected]replied to [email protected] last edited by
Get to know your neighbors.
The network is one of the most important parts of a survival scenario.
Personally, I have met people through food not bombs that I found interesting and dedicated to a better future.
Dried beans and rice go a long way towards feeding yourself and family if food becomes a scarcity. Store in airtight containers, with an inert gas, so that what you do have does not become rancid.
A human can survive for weeks without food but only days without water. If you're stockpiling.
Become proficient with firearms. This involves practice, and ownership.
It is almost always better to hunker down than to bug out.
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[email protected]replied to [email protected] last edited by
I'm old enough to have lived through several recessions, though I was poor for the first couple of them. I think a recession more likely than a collapse. If it's a recession:
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If you can keep your job you will be ok, really. Try to keep your job if you can. Yes even if they do temporary pay cuts.
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If you've been unable to buy a house, a recession may make it possible. That is how we got our first house - prices tanked, we got a run down house, couldn't improve it really but it was a place to live for a long time, and when you buy in a crash, taxes stay low here.
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Remember there have been worse times and you are descended mostly from people who survived them.
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Be nice to people. Always be nice on your way up, because what comes up must come down. We used to have to dumpster dive, and I have lived on the streets and in a car, don't want to again, at all, but there are plenty of less extreme tactics - live with more people in one house, we used to have one family in each bedroom, not one person, and that makes housing cost so much easier.
#1 is really the most important though - if you can keep a job you will be ok. If that falls through, do not think you are on your own, reach out to others and work together.
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[email protected]replied to [email protected] last edited by
Easiest access to the "inert gas" piece is dry ice from your local grocery store. CO~2~ is heavier than air. Wrap some in a tea towel and put it in the bottom of the bucket before adding the food. Then place the lid on but do not close. Keep in a place without significant air movement while the dry ice sublimates, pushing out the lighter gasses, before sealing the lid. This takes a few hours.
Times and amounts are purposely vague, as I don't remember them, but it should be easy to look up. If not, err on the side of too much and too long - the extra gas will just seep out the top.
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[email protected]replied to [email protected] last edited by
A lot of good advice on this thread, particularly the emphasis on social connections and food. Given OP asked to assume near or total economic collapse though, two thoughts:
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Some people advocated building up money savings. If you are convinced there will be runaway inflation (part of what I assume is meant by collapse) then this is exactly wrong. The thing to do would be to convert as much money as possible into durable goods while the money still has any value. Look into the history of prior examples like the collapse of the deutsche mark in 1922, and the rush on payday to buy necessities immediately.
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Gold is also being suggested. If your threat model includes social collapse gold won't do you much good. Gold has financial value but no use value for individuals (it is useful industrially, but not in a way you can take advantage of). Unless you're planning to run, bulkier but more immediately useful goods like food and tools are likely to hold more value. When everyone's starving, a baseball bat to guard it with is worth more than a lump of shiny but useless metal.
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If you aren't assuming social collapse, foreign currency is another option. Be careful, because you want to pick one that is not likely to track your local currency and fall together. The advantage here is that when your local currency stabilizes, the value of gold will drop quickly and it will be very hard to guess exactly the right time to cash out. Foreign currencies won't have that same crash effect.
All that said, don't jump into action out if panic. Take time to think it through calmly - collapse is probably not coming in the next week or two. The actions that will save you financially in a collapse can destroy you if that collapse doesn't come. Make a plan for what to do if you're wrong to avoid shooting yourself in the foot (or, as many people do after that kind of mistake, the head).
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[email protected]replied to [email protected] last edited by
Skills are a good bartering chip. Things others can't do, or can't do to your abilities. A rare skill set or talent/ability will get you really far. But you have to advertise that ability. An engineer that can make a working electrical system out of car batteries and alternators will be worth more than a literal tonne of gold. Someone who can cut hair, valuable. The more you can help a community, the more accepting they'll be of you. A biologist would be amazing.
"Yep, that's hen of the woods, totally good to eat."
Vs
"I mean you COULD eat that, it won't kill you, but you'll be seeing pink Floyd's music"
"Never heard of pink Floyd"
"Doesn't matter, you'll know it if you eat that"
Vs
"If you fucking so much as touch that, I'm leaving, because you'll start projectile shitting your internal organs"
Yeah, biologists will be super valuable.
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[email protected]replied to [email protected] last edited by
At first I thought you were advocating for stocking up on Dr Pepper - ,wouldn’t you like to be a pepper too’
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[email protected]replied to [email protected] last edited by
My neighbors are all fascists, judging by the flags they have flappin' in their front yards
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[email protected]replied to [email protected] last edited by
How old were your elders? We don't have the gold standard anymore and gold prices are only loosely tied to the economy anymore. In a dire enough scenario, lead becomes more valuable than gold. If you're going to try to make money off of this situation, put all of your chips on China. As we collapse, they're right behind us. In many parts of the tech tree, they're ahead of us already. Despite their population problem, they're trending up while America is trending down. They're leading the way in solar, fusion and drones. Ahead in hypersonic, hacking, manufacturing, and AI. And they're on par in space, and I know I'm forgetting something. Oh, they're also way ahead on worldwide public opinion at the moment. So likely to get better deals.
Literally the only advantage the US has right now is military and logistically. But if we keep alienating (ironic, right?) allies, our logistics is shot to shit. (It's actually worse, because if we can't supply our bases around the world, those bases are sitting ducks.) The Chinese are masters at stealing tech. What they don't have is a navy capable of projecting power, but that's changing quickly.
If you want to make money off the fall of America, bet on the next superpower. Which is china.
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[email protected]replied to [email protected] last edited by
No arguments from me on China. They're excellent at playing the long game. My elders are boomers and the greatest generation.
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Craigslist also has a free section, we have given and received on there.
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[email protected]replied to [email protected] last edited by
Alright well just forget what boomers say. American boomers had the easiest lives in human history. But the greatest generation knows struggle. Listen to them, but not on gold. Gold isn't what it was, it's volatile at the moment. It'll stabilize again if the world comes to peace, but that isn't likely.
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[email protected]replied to [email protected] last edited by
I don't think housing is going to come down in any meaningful way. They'll just be bought up by corporations automatically now when the price dips low enough