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  3. Are there people that are otherwise logical but drop their skepticism when it comes to l religion? How do they consolidate those 2 sides of themselves?

Are there people that are otherwise logical but drop their skepticism when it comes to l religion? How do they consolidate those 2 sides of themselves?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Asklemmy
asklemmy
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  • D [email protected]

    'Man brains' is different to 'Man, brains'.

    R This user is from outside of this forum
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    [email protected]
    wrote on last edited by
    #11

    Man: Brains are so Weird

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    • R [email protected]

      Can I ask what religion you practice and what drives you to continue?

      N This user is from outside of this forum
      N This user is from outside of this forum
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      wrote on last edited by
      #12

      I'm Christian, Episcopalian. What drives me to continue practicing? There's a lot of things:

      Socially, I enjoy the sense of community that comes with being an active member of a congregation, and it provides both a reminder to and a venue for giving back in the form of volunteering and charity.

      Personally, I appreciate the rhythm it gives to my weeks and years, with specific times set aside for joy and grief, reflection and action, uncomfortable growth and quiet recovery.

      Spiritually, I draw both comfort and strength from my relationship with God; whether or not this is a spiritual sort of "rubber ducking" doesn't change how it affects me.

      Morally, I think the example of Christ is a good one to follow, and again, that doesn't really depend on Him being a real historical figure.

      G R B M 4 Replies Last reply
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      • N [email protected]

        I'm Christian, Episcopalian. What drives me to continue practicing? There's a lot of things:

        Socially, I enjoy the sense of community that comes with being an active member of a congregation, and it provides both a reminder to and a venue for giving back in the form of volunteering and charity.

        Personally, I appreciate the rhythm it gives to my weeks and years, with specific times set aside for joy and grief, reflection and action, uncomfortable growth and quiet recovery.

        Spiritually, I draw both comfort and strength from my relationship with God; whether or not this is a spiritual sort of "rubber ducking" doesn't change how it affects me.

        Morally, I think the example of Christ is a good one to follow, and again, that doesn't really depend on Him being a real historical figure.

        G This user is from outside of this forum
        G This user is from outside of this forum
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        wrote on last edited by
        #13

        Sounds like a hobby

        N W L 3 Replies Last reply
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        • R [email protected]
          This post did not contain any content.
          L This user is from outside of this forum
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          wrote on last edited by
          #14

          Also looking at religion as a social phenomenon vs something supernatural . Some people can enjoy the ceremony and community and drop all the dogma. I know I'm an atheist but still enjoy Christmas , Hanukkah, Vesak, Diwali. Nice thing about not being tied to the dogma means you can pick and chose what you like.

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          • noretus@sopuli.xyzN [email protected]

            What if I were to propose to you that there's no way to prove that matter comes before consciousness? For all you know, everything exists inside consciousness but most people believe matter is the prior condition. This is pure logic. But when it's brought up to science minded people, they tend to get very uppity about it.

            Beliefs be like that.

            G This user is from outside of this forum
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            wrote on last edited by
            #15

            This proves god how?

            noretus@sopuli.xyzN G 2 Replies Last reply
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            • G [email protected]

              This proves god how?

              noretus@sopuli.xyzN This user is from outside of this forum
              noretus@sopuli.xyzN This user is from outside of this forum
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              wrote on last edited by
              #16

              Do you think Christianity and the western idea of God is the only one in existence?

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              • R [email protected]

                I see where you're drawing the correlation because we can neither prove nor disprove the existence of higher powers the same as I can't tell you whether you are brain floating in amniotic fluid running through a simulation. People approaching philosophical questions usually reach an impasse because that is the nature of philosophy.

                But a religious person would be more akin to someone telling you that they know we are in fact floating brains powering an AI civilization. They can't provide you with solid proof but you are incorrect if you think otherwise.

                noretus@sopuli.xyzN This user is from outside of this forum
                noretus@sopuli.xyzN This user is from outside of this forum
                [email protected]
                wrote on last edited by
                #17

                No but the latter is what science-minded people do. They insist that matter comes before consciousness without being able to prove it, though what's extremely obvious in everyone's direct experience is that consciousness is needed before anything else is said about the world. It's a false status quo.

                R 1 Reply Last reply
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                • N [email protected]

                  I'm Christian, Episcopalian. What drives me to continue practicing? There's a lot of things:

                  Socially, I enjoy the sense of community that comes with being an active member of a congregation, and it provides both a reminder to and a venue for giving back in the form of volunteering and charity.

                  Personally, I appreciate the rhythm it gives to my weeks and years, with specific times set aside for joy and grief, reflection and action, uncomfortable growth and quiet recovery.

                  Spiritually, I draw both comfort and strength from my relationship with God; whether or not this is a spiritual sort of "rubber ducking" doesn't change how it affects me.

                  Morally, I think the example of Christ is a good one to follow, and again, that doesn't really depend on Him being a real historical figure.

                  R This user is from outside of this forum
                  R This user is from outside of this forum
                  [email protected]
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #18

                  Did you grow up religious? Or maybe more specifically, did you grow up around this religious group and established connections young?

                  N 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • L [email protected]

                    Also looking at religion as a social phenomenon vs something supernatural . Some people can enjoy the ceremony and community and drop all the dogma. I know I'm an atheist but still enjoy Christmas , Hanukkah, Vesak, Diwali. Nice thing about not being tied to the dogma means you can pick and chose what you like.

                    R This user is from outside of this forum
                    R This user is from outside of this forum
                    [email protected]
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #19

                    I think a lot of people wouldn't consider you religious if you just do it for the social aspect

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                    • R [email protected]
                      This post did not contain any content.
                      H This user is from outside of this forum
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                      wrote on last edited by
                      #20

                      Doublethink, bro. Doublethink.

                      moseschrute@lemmy.mlM 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • noretus@sopuli.xyzN [email protected]

                        No but the latter is what science-minded people do. They insist that matter comes before consciousness without being able to prove it, though what's extremely obvious in everyone's direct experience is that consciousness is needed before anything else is said about the world. It's a false status quo.

                        R This user is from outside of this forum
                        R This user is from outside of this forum
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                        wrote on last edited by
                        #21

                        There is a prevelant theory but it's still an unanswered philosophical question that noone truly intelligent would tell you they knew definitively. Anyone asserting that matter 100% comes before conciousness is on the same wavelength as someone telling you there is 100% a god controlling everything.

                        So we can at least agree that people who are confident in something unproveable are objectively unintelligent.

                        noretus@sopuli.xyzN M 3 Replies Last reply
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                        • R [email protected]

                          There is a prevelant theory but it's still an unanswered philosophical question that noone truly intelligent would tell you they knew definitively. Anyone asserting that matter 100% comes before conciousness is on the same wavelength as someone telling you there is 100% a god controlling everything.

                          So we can at least agree that people who are confident in something unproveable are objectively unintelligent.

                          noretus@sopuli.xyzN This user is from outside of this forum
                          noretus@sopuli.xyzN This user is from outside of this forum
                          [email protected]
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #22

                          You're wiggling a bit but let's go with that and get to your original question.

                          Based on your responses, you probably hold a core belief that matter comes before consciousness. You're smart enough to admit it's not a certainty but you've probably lived your whole life fairly assured it's the case. You speak English well so you have at least been exposed to western culture - which is very materialistic (religious or no, Christianity is also functionally materialistic), and so the core belief both serves you well, and is positively reinforced.

                          Any new information you get is subconsciously aligned to this core belief. Any decision you make is informed by it. You have a network of data in your head and it all connects to this and some other core beliefs. The same way a religious person can be highly logical but they hold a different core belief and so subtly, everything they know aligns to that belief. The more irrational the core belief, the more convoluted the links are of course but it makes sense to them - they just may not be able to represent it to you with the symbols that is language. And sometimes you'll just get them doing the loading screen face when they try to rationalize their views - then it just becomes a question of which core VALUE is deeper for them; rationality or their religious view.

                          If rationality is more valuable, it necessarily demolishes the religious view. It demolishes a core belief to which they have aligned all their knowledge about the world. Which is a hell of a trip, and can be very scary. Which is also why rationality often loses.

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                          • G [email protected]

                            Sounds like a hobby

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                            wrote on last edited by
                            #23

                            you're not wrong

                            1 Reply Last reply
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                            • R [email protected]

                              Did you grow up religious? Or maybe more specifically, did you grow up around this religious group and established connections young?

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                              wrote on last edited by
                              #24

                              yes to both

                              R 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • R [email protected]

                                There is a prevelant theory but it's still an unanswered philosophical question that noone truly intelligent would tell you they knew definitively. Anyone asserting that matter 100% comes before conciousness is on the same wavelength as someone telling you there is 100% a god controlling everything.

                                So we can at least agree that people who are confident in something unproveable are objectively unintelligent.

                                M This user is from outside of this forum
                                M This user is from outside of this forum
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                                wrote on last edited by
                                #25

                                Unintelligent? Maybe. Maybe the rest have had the power of imagination constrained so long, it's atrophied. But exercise may restore a degree of it.

                                R 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • G [email protected]

                                  Sounds like a hobby

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                                  W This user is from outside of this forum
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                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #26

                                  Not the commenter, but Christian as well. Consider myself non-denominational, but attend/worship at an Episcopalian Church. The hobby comment isn't entirely untrue, but there's more meaning to it than that for me at least.

                                  Most hobbies don't have such an outsized influence on my life. The hobbies that could would cost a lot of money.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • noretus@sopuli.xyzN [email protected]

                                    You're wiggling a bit but let's go with that and get to your original question.

                                    Based on your responses, you probably hold a core belief that matter comes before consciousness. You're smart enough to admit it's not a certainty but you've probably lived your whole life fairly assured it's the case. You speak English well so you have at least been exposed to western culture - which is very materialistic (religious or no, Christianity is also functionally materialistic), and so the core belief both serves you well, and is positively reinforced.

                                    Any new information you get is subconsciously aligned to this core belief. Any decision you make is informed by it. You have a network of data in your head and it all connects to this and some other core beliefs. The same way a religious person can be highly logical but they hold a different core belief and so subtly, everything they know aligns to that belief. The more irrational the core belief, the more convoluted the links are of course but it makes sense to them - they just may not be able to represent it to you with the symbols that is language. And sometimes you'll just get them doing the loading screen face when they try to rationalize their views - then it just becomes a question of which core VALUE is deeper for them; rationality or their religious view.

                                    If rationality is more valuable, it necessarily demolishes the religious view. It demolishes a core belief to which they have aligned all their knowledge about the world. Which is a hell of a trip, and can be very scary. Which is also why rationality often loses.

                                    R This user is from outside of this forum
                                    R This user is from outside of this forum
                                    [email protected]
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #27

                                    Born and raised in north america, went to a baptist church as a kid so I'm fairly familiar with the bible as well as different types of religious people you'll meet.

                                    As an agnostic now, my only core belief is I know that I don't know. That's something I apply to any philosophical question so it's alien to me that some people can separate logic and religion.

                                    noretus@sopuli.xyzN 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • noretus@sopuli.xyzN [email protected]

                                      You're wiggling a bit but let's go with that and get to your original question.

                                      Based on your responses, you probably hold a core belief that matter comes before consciousness. You're smart enough to admit it's not a certainty but you've probably lived your whole life fairly assured it's the case. You speak English well so you have at least been exposed to western culture - which is very materialistic (religious or no, Christianity is also functionally materialistic), and so the core belief both serves you well, and is positively reinforced.

                                      Any new information you get is subconsciously aligned to this core belief. Any decision you make is informed by it. You have a network of data in your head and it all connects to this and some other core beliefs. The same way a religious person can be highly logical but they hold a different core belief and so subtly, everything they know aligns to that belief. The more irrational the core belief, the more convoluted the links are of course but it makes sense to them - they just may not be able to represent it to you with the symbols that is language. And sometimes you'll just get them doing the loading screen face when they try to rationalize their views - then it just becomes a question of which core VALUE is deeper for them; rationality or their religious view.

                                      If rationality is more valuable, it necessarily demolishes the religious view. It demolishes a core belief to which they have aligned all their knowledge about the world. Which is a hell of a trip, and can be very scary. Which is also why rationality often loses.

                                      M This user is from outside of this forum
                                      M This user is from outside of this forum
                                      [email protected]
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #28

                                      Maybe some hold both in esteem and sort ideas accordingly holding all is a bit of the whole.

                                      noretus@sopuli.xyzN 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • M [email protected]

                                        Unintelligent? Maybe. Maybe the rest have had the power of imagination constrained so long, it's atrophied. But exercise may restore a degree of it.

                                        R This user is from outside of this forum
                                        R This user is from outside of this forum
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                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #29

                                        Your intelligence is your ability to learn, It would be hard to argue that someone is very good at learning if they are confident in things they can't prove. If Neil degrasse told me he knew exactly what happened after death then I would reconsider anything I've learned from him.

                                        M 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • N [email protected]

                                          I'm Christian, Episcopalian. What drives me to continue practicing? There's a lot of things:

                                          Socially, I enjoy the sense of community that comes with being an active member of a congregation, and it provides both a reminder to and a venue for giving back in the form of volunteering and charity.

                                          Personally, I appreciate the rhythm it gives to my weeks and years, with specific times set aside for joy and grief, reflection and action, uncomfortable growth and quiet recovery.

                                          Spiritually, I draw both comfort and strength from my relationship with God; whether or not this is a spiritual sort of "rubber ducking" doesn't change how it affects me.

                                          Morally, I think the example of Christ is a good one to follow, and again, that doesn't really depend on Him being a real historical figure.

                                          B This user is from outside of this forum
                                          B This user is from outside of this forum
                                          [email protected]
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #30

                                          Very nicely put. This describes my own faith almost to a T.

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