[Discussion] What would it take to selfhost some of the backend that Tesla's connect to?
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Something else that people don’t think about besides the backend server is the connectivity. A lot of these cars use LTE with eSIMs that can’t be replaced, and getting an internet package for it will be next to impossible since Tesla gets them at bulk rates. Once upon a time cars did allow “bring your own SIM cards” but not anymore. Also as cars get older the cell networks get shut down. Some companies did offer upgrades but that was few and far between. Most just said “sorry, you’re SOL”.
So even if you could hack your car, your car won’t have any way of talking to a custom endpoint.
And this is another reason why putting internet on cars is a bad idea
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Mixed feelings on this. Yeah, you buy it you should own it. But if your ability to fuck with a two-ton rolling death machine puts my ass at risk, we've git a fucking problem.
Nothing has stopped people with ice vehicles.
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I'm talking 'I disabled the awareness requirement of autopilot' or 'I fucked with the object detection and here goes my beta test yolo' or 'I added a button to disable all the lights so I can covertly street race' or...
And? People can already do this with most cars.
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If you bought a live service car you're probably shit out of luck
It's not.
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And? People can already do this with most cars.
There's a difference between 'physical work required' and 'plug in this dongle and run the exe' though
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And this is another reason why putting internet on cars is a bad idea
I mean, what’s the alternative? It’s not like it has to have internet. Anything internet connected is mainly quality of life:
- Traffic
- Remote (app) features
- Music
Except maybe Teslas, damned if I know what they do. But they’re nice to have things that generally require realtime updates but the car functions just fine as a car without it.
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You're better off building an open source car. Teslas aren't complicated
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I saw this article earlier:
Tesla 'going bankrupt' is endpoint of protests, says local organizer
In the spirit of right to repair, self-hosting, giving a second life to old devices, and limiting data collection by car companies:
- What are some considerations?
- Are there any projects worth keeping an eye on?
An example that came to mind was Valetudo, which is a cloud replacement for vacuum robots enabling local-only operation. Some robot vacuums are easy to install this on, and others require more invasive modifications.
What I've found so far:
Realistically they would get a bailout "for the consumer".
More likely than central hosting would be some of the same people enabling faster modes via software hacks currently making them run offline.
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...But will it run DOOM?
Pretty sure someone would have already done it. Anything with a screen and some sort of computer behind it is low hanging fruit for doom. It's shit like running it on a calculator using potatoes that raises the bar!
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I mean, what’s the alternative? It’s not like it has to have internet. Anything internet connected is mainly quality of life:
- Traffic
- Remote (app) features
- Music
Except maybe Teslas, damned if I know what they do. But they’re nice to have things that generally require realtime updates but the car functions just fine as a car without it.
- Traffic
- Phone (CarPlay/Android Auto (yes I know Tesla doesn’t have them, garbage decision you’ll have to live with if you bought one)
- Remote (app) features
- Don’t care/want/need, plus security risk. If you really can’t do without, use WiFi when at home, and no-idea-what for when on the go.
- Music
- See point 1, also “dumb” media devices via Bluetooth/USB should be possible.
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- Traffic
- Phone (CarPlay/Android Auto (yes I know Tesla doesn’t have them, garbage decision you’ll have to live with if you bought one)
- Remote (app) features
- Don’t care/want/need, plus security risk. If you really can’t do without, use WiFi when at home, and no-idea-what for when on the go.
- Music
- See point 1, also “dumb” media devices via Bluetooth/USB should be possible.
Again though, they are all quality of life things. You don’t have to use it on most cars. Don’t want it, don’t pay for it and don’t use it. So just like giving people the choice of AA/CP, what’s wrong with giving them the choice of using those features?
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Something else that people don’t think about besides the backend server is the connectivity. A lot of these cars use LTE with eSIMs that can’t be replaced, and getting an internet package for it will be next to impossible since Tesla gets them at bulk rates. Once upon a time cars did allow “bring your own SIM cards” but not anymore. Also as cars get older the cell networks get shut down. Some companies did offer upgrades but that was few and far between. Most just said “sorry, you’re SOL”.
So even if you could hack your car, your car won’t have any way of talking to a custom endpoint.
Could a Tesla ever work if the cell network went down
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Could a Tesla ever work if the cell network went down
I think I mentioned it in another post but Schwaticars are a bit different. Though I’d assume they’d have to have some basic functionality in the event of an outage. “Always on” hasn’t come to cars… yet
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Realistically they would get a bailout "for the consumer".
More likely than central hosting would be some of the same people enabling faster modes via software hacks currently making them run offline.
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Then don't buy tesla, or force legislation about introducing such feature.
But make yourself a favor and don't play Russian roulette with something that you can not understandbecause there are not data available.
And for final tip, if you really cares about that then enforce the fsf (fsf.org)
I agree we should legislate it! But in the US, that isn't going to happen, and the EU also doesn't seem to quite have enough teeth yet to do it.
And buddy, we play Russian roulette all the goddamn time. The people that modify their cars start off not knowing shit. Why would the computer in said car be any diferent?
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Mixed feelings on this. Yeah, you buy it you should own it. But if your ability to fuck with a two-ton rolling death machine puts my ass at risk, we've git a fucking problem.
People fuck with two ton rolling death machines every day. What are mechanics? What are car enthusiasts? You just have accepted that you can't touch the computer because they told you you can't. That's stupid.
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I'm talking 'I disabled the awareness requirement of autopilot' or 'I fucked with the object detection and here goes my beta test yolo' or 'I added a button to disable all the lights so I can covertly street race' or...
Have you never heard of tunes?
Any idiot can make substantial software changes to almost any modern car with easily available inexpensive hardware. Look up Cobb, ECUtek, openflashtablet, Hondata, etc
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I think I mentioned it in another post but Schwaticars are a bit different. Though I’d assume they’d have to have some basic functionality in the event of an outage. “Always on” hasn’t come to cars… yet
It would be funny if old cell network dependency bought down tesla. Just every car made in gets bricked in the Future
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I agree we should legislate it! But in the US, that isn't going to happen, and the EU also doesn't seem to quite have enough teeth yet to do it.
And buddy, we play Russian roulette all the goddamn time. The people that modify their cars start off not knowing shit. Why would the computer in said car be any diferent?
Because the modification of that computer is order of magnitudes more difficult than a mechanical modification of a moving part.
The humanity / regular human is able to understand much better the interactions of the mechanical parts that usually are always local and well defined.This does not exist in the Sw, FW and digital hw, the interactions are not local and are millions timesmore complex to understand and properly modify.
It would be an utterly irresponsability to modify (blindly) the Sw of an xray machine that could make it unsafe and ultimately it could kill humans, and it is the same concept with the car. It is irresponsable to make a modification that can make the system unsafe.
For the rest? Regulations, free software foundation and good selfhosting
Cheers -
I saw this article earlier:
Tesla 'going bankrupt' is endpoint of protests, says local organizer
In the spirit of right to repair, self-hosting, giving a second life to old devices, and limiting data collection by car companies:
- What are some considerations?
- Are there any projects worth keeping an eye on?
An example that came to mind was Valetudo, which is a cloud replacement for vacuum robots enabling local-only operation. Some robot vacuums are easy to install this on, and others require more invasive modifications.
What I've found so far:
so, from what little I know, and I'm absolutely not even remotely a car person:
car electrical systems run at really high voltage with much harder systems than you'd find inside a normal computer, because it's an extremely noisy environment that has to survive lots of fucked up shocks
and AFAIK the standards are only kinda-sorta standards. interfacing with them is very very hard. im sure this gets easier once you get TO the network, but flashing that shit and changing what it does with the network seems like a pretty tall order. maybe try swapping out something near the cellular chip itself? that's probably a pretty standardized part, right?
