Why I recommend against Brave.
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If you are keen on personal privacy, you might have come across Brave Browser. Brave is a Chromium-based browser that promises to deliver privacy with built-in ad-blocking and content-blocking protection. It also offers several quality-of-life features and services, like a VPN and Tor access. I mean, it's even listed on the reputable PrivacyTools website. Why am I telling you to steer clear of this browser, then?
Also don't use Opera. They're opera-ted by chinese mafia.
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This is a very well written an thorough article and I highly recommend reading it. If you don't want to however, here is a summary of the key points:
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- Brendan Eich donated to anti-LGBT political organizations, politicians, and initiatives such as CA Prop 8 which was a proposed ban on same-sex marriages.
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- Brave promised to replace ads with privacy friendly ads that would actually pay publishers and even users with a volatile cryptocurrency while keeping a cut for themselves. This never actually came to life and was criticized as "blatantly illegal".
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- Brave collected donations for popular content creators without actually involving or seeking consent from said creators. In short they accepted donations in crypto for creators, but would only pay out if it reached a minimum value of $100. When called out, Brave said refunds were impossible.
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2020 — Brave injects referral links when visiting crypto wallets
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- Brave injected their own referral links for services such as Binance without informing users or asking permission.
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- Brave turned their home screen image rotator into a place to serve ads, many of which were suspicious or crypto related.
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- Brave added a Tor feature which exposed users DNS requests
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- Brave refuses to disclose their crawler bot to websites since many websites want to block Brave Search. Brave will only chose not to crawl a website if it also blocks Google's crawler.
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2024 - So-called "privacy browser" deprecated advanced fingerprinting protection
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- Brave removed a the Strict, Block Fingerprinting privacy feature from their browser.
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- Brave paid for targeted ads for users searching for Firefox in the Play Store and ran a campaign to "Forget the Fox". When called out on this the VP publicly denied it and claimed it was photo-shopped.
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- The VP of Brave, Luke Mulks, frequently posts about all things crypto, from NFTs to FTX, and uses AI-gen images to promote them. He also frequently re-tweets right-wing activists.
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- Brendan Eich's feed also frequently contains right-wing content and Republican propaganda despite his claims to be "independent".
I don't use Brave as my main browser but I think some of the accusations are not fair.
- TOR Feature. I don't think it was deliberately done. Similarly Firefox revealed your up address even if you used VPN while using. As long as there was no malicious intent we can't say anything other than that they software has big bugs.
- Yes, it is questionable what they do for getting money but same can be said for most donations or schemes that FOSS use. There was long discussions about the money Mozilla receives from Google, or things Opera did (basically similar to Brave)
- Getting news from right wing is useful if you ever need to do research, I had a course in uni about anti-islam and getting really right wings news was difficult. We all knew the same 2 sites.
- The political opinion of the CEO is concerning but not important enough. In that case I'm wholly on the same boat as the developer of the Factorio, if Hitler were to make good Browsers I'd use them.
- It is also important to note most of the problems are in the past. Sure it means there are likely a lot we could not find and it is annoying to use a product where they would exploit you if they are given a chance.
That said Brave is still #1 Browser I'd recommend someone installing. If I can I'd install Firefox myself, but on the phone it is what I recommend. I don't trust my uncle to install Firefox and install uBlock etc. on top of it. But I trust him to install Brave and use it.
Most privacy minded Browsers like Libre Wolf have restrictions, like not enabling WebRTC out of the box, meaning using Zoom, Meet etc is not possible. There are people who are forced to use such software and not able to tweak with config files. Some people think just because they can do it, everybody should be able to. I think it is a good choice to recommend to people, very good in place replacement for Chrome, you can even take your bookmarks and addons with you
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When did Librewolf stop development?
https://github.com/arkenfox/user.js/issues/1906
Not sure about the health of librewolf either, this thread suggests it's 3 overworked parttimers unable to keep up
"Hey all, I'm on the LibreWolf team, and it's true that since the departure of @fxbrit the project has taken a total nosedive when it comes to keeping up to date with Arkenfox and settings in general. We're still making releases, but settings did not get updated."
"As @threadpanic said, since fxbrit left we have been in a kind of "maintenance" mode in terms of settings. Mainly because we are really only three people left"
"LW since fxbrit left/died/who-knows has gone to shit - I worked with him behind the scenes to make the right choices and while he would do his own analysis, we always agreed, and his voice influenced them. Now they don't know what they are doing, and in fact have compromised security and make really stupid decisions. Same goes for all the other forks - really dubious shit going"
Which I think is one of the big issues with OSS projects - many are based around a very small number of people being motivated to work on something for free. And it dies if that stops.
Exactly.
But I'm still confused about what you mean by the "resources" comment re: Librewolf.
"Resources" can refer to many different things, in this case it is motivation/prioritization.
It's still being kept up to date, just not getting new features, and the security issues have been patched up as they come along. It's not a dead project yet. Maintaining Librewolf isn't impossible since Firefox is doing the heavy lifting.
The main issue is mostly that it relies on Firefox.
Honestly, I don't mind the paid browser route. Browsers, and a lot of software, used to be paid, and it feels like things were less shit when some of it was.
I think ideally we'd see 2 versions of software like some used to be in the 90s - a free, stripped down version that only does basic functions (think Microsoft WordPad Vs Microsoft Word) and a pair full version. This model can still allow FOSS to exist as well, like perhaps having LibreOffice as is, and then having an enterprise version that has additional networking features and support that's paid for businesses, with all money from that going into the maintenance of LibreOffice.
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That's a really concise and thoughtless way to excuse Google, Microsoft and Apple for monetizing spying on every person on earth for profit.
And yes, Linux distros have a business model. I'm happy that distros found a business model through offering official support to corporations, it makes it truly free to the rest of us. It also helps that their competition is very expensive. Will that model work for a browser? What do you think?
That's a really concise and thoughtless way to excuse Google, Microsoft and Apple for monetizing spying on every person on earth for profit.
Nice strawman you got there. I think anyone with eyes can see I didn't bring them up because most (all?) Lemmy users know Firefox and its forks exist.
And yes, Linux distros have a business model. I'm happy that distros found a business model through offering official support to corporations, it makes it truly free to the rest of us. It also helps that their competition is very expensive. Will that model work for a browser? What do you think?
That's... Literally how browsers used to work. Netscape was a paid browser. Orion is starting to look into that model as well.
And yes, you just pointed out of possible to raise funds without pulling the shit Brave has, as Linux distros have done... So, congrats on getting the point? A little slow, but you got there.
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well no you're accusing all the contributors of brave of being a murderer
they stopped murdering a long time ago
Murderer is a noun. Once you've murdered that's what you are, regardless of past or present or future. People can change, but that doesn't change what you've done in the past and have become, because you can't undo what you did.
6 months to 5 years isn't "A long time ago" btw. I think it takes at least a decade to start considering something a long time ago.
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God damnit.
Every browser I switched to since Firefox has been a good user experience, and then I find out some horrible bullshit.
Is there any safe browser that isn't run by hateful assholes?
FF is starting to enshittify because they depend on Google for their revenue
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Murderer is a noun. Once you've murdered that's what you are, regardless of past or present or future. People can change, but that doesn't change what you've done in the past and have become, because you can't undo what you did.
6 months to 5 years isn't "A long time ago" btw. I think it takes at least a decade to start considering something a long time ago.
you know murderers get rehabilitated and released all the time
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Also don't use Opera. They're opera-ted by chinese mafia.
Thanks. I read an article yesterday about how it’s one of the best privacy browsers out there.
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Brave has their own built-in ad blocker that still works
It barely block most ads
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Thanks. I read an article yesterday about how it’s one of the best privacy browsers out there.
I prefer either TorBrowser or Waterfox.
TorBrowser is, hands down, the best privacy browser out there but it's a bit slow because it operates like a decentralized VPN.
Waterfox browser is built on Mozilla's Gecko Engine just like firefox, but it isn't managed directly by Mozilla.
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disabling ... Chrome's send-everything-to-Google behaviour.
Is that even possible?
There's Ungoogled Chromium which claims to do just that
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Believing that same-sex marriage shouldn't be a government-supported institution isn't the same as believing LGBT people are "invalid" or "wrong" or whatever.
How is it not?
we should replace it with a series of contracts that grant certain legal privileges
I mean, legally, that's what marriage is.
you may want to join finances w/ someone, but not give them hospital visitation rights
You don't have to do either of those things just because you're married. Marriage just gives you the option.
For example, they could partner w/ someone like Axate
And what would they bring to this partnership?
And if that applies to you, you should be very careful about the tools you use.
You should be. But companies also should not be creating tools that propose to give you those protections when they're not smart enough to. Just leave it to the professionals.
I wouldn't be surprised if GabeN's personal politics were quite conservative
As long as he keeps his mouth shut about them and doesn't financially support them, he's doing worlds better than Mr. Eich.
Is it me or the people defending brave are homophobes too.
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you know murderers get rehabilitated and released all the time
After a significant amount of time. Longer than Brave's blunders. And rehabilitation is not erasure. Likewise, murder enough and society will consider to instead remove the person from society as well instead of rewarding them.
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That's a really concise and thoughtless way to excuse Google, Microsoft and Apple for monetizing spying on every person on earth for profit.
Nice strawman you got there. I think anyone with eyes can see I didn't bring them up because most (all?) Lemmy users know Firefox and its forks exist.
And yes, Linux distros have a business model. I'm happy that distros found a business model through offering official support to corporations, it makes it truly free to the rest of us. It also helps that their competition is very expensive. Will that model work for a browser? What do you think?
That's... Literally how browsers used to work. Netscape was a paid browser. Orion is starting to look into that model as well.
And yes, you just pointed out of possible to raise funds without pulling the shit Brave has, as Linux distros have done... So, congrats on getting the point? A little slow, but you got there.
Nice strawman you got there. I think anyone with eyes can see I didn't bring them up because most (all?) Lemmy users know Firefox and its forks exist.
It's not a strawman, it's the problem. You may not have mentioned it, but I didn't think it needed mentioning, between the three companies I mentioned, they makeup 90% marketable for browsers, that's the vast majority of browsers. Are there others? Absolutely. I primarily use Firefox myself, but they're starting to lean more toward sharing data as well... I don't know what let you think you have to stand in here.
That's... Literally how browsers used to work. Netscape was a paid browser. Orion is starting to look into that model as well.
And Netscape? When was that paid? I can't think of an era when that was paid... Was that like during the Mozilla period, when the browser sucked, or before that? Whatever, that clearly didn't work at any rate, cause they aren't still doing it. But I swear I used to use Netscape in the 90s, I can't remember it being paid...
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Nice strawman you got there. I think anyone with eyes can see I didn't bring them up because most (all?) Lemmy users know Firefox and its forks exist.
It's not a strawman, it's the problem. You may not have mentioned it, but I didn't think it needed mentioning, between the three companies I mentioned, they makeup 90% marketable for browsers, that's the vast majority of browsers. Are there others? Absolutely. I primarily use Firefox myself, but they're starting to lean more toward sharing data as well... I don't know what let you think you have to stand in here.
That's... Literally how browsers used to work. Netscape was a paid browser. Orion is starting to look into that model as well.
And Netscape? When was that paid? I can't think of an era when that was paid... Was that like during the Mozilla period, when the browser sucked, or before that? Whatever, that clearly didn't work at any rate, cause they aren't still doing it. But I swear I used to use Netscape in the 90s, I can't remember it being paid...
It's not a strawman, it's the problem.
It's a strawman you're still trying to prop up because the issue is not only the Brave browser itself, but the owners of it.
Even if we took your argument in good faith, it would still be flawed since Brave is based on Chromium, of which Google essentially controls at this point, so you'd still be supporting Google hegemony. In other words, even from that stance you've brought up, it would be a bad idea to use Brave vs Firefox, Librewolf, Konqueror, etc.
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If you are keen on personal privacy, you might have come across Brave Browser. Brave is a Chromium-based browser that promises to deliver privacy with built-in ad-blocking and content-blocking protection. It also offers several quality-of-life features and services, like a VPN and Tor access. I mean, it's even listed on the reputable PrivacyTools website. Why am I telling you to steer clear of this browser, then?
Orion all the way
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I prefer either TorBrowser or Waterfox.
TorBrowser is, hands down, the best privacy browser out there but it's a bit slow because it operates like a decentralized VPN.
Waterfox browser is built on Mozilla's Gecko Engine just like firefox, but it isn't managed directly by Mozilla.
Is waterfox compatible with all or most firefox extensions? Also, can you import a firefox profile, and share between devices? I'm fairly invested in firefox, and would hate loosing functionality
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After a significant amount of time. Longer than Brave's blunders. And rehabilitation is not erasure. Likewise, murder enough and society will consider to instead remove the person from society as well instead of rewarding them.
the time can be scarily short and quite rarely ends in life terms in civilized societies
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I prefer either TorBrowser or Waterfox.
TorBrowser is, hands down, the best privacy browser out there but it's a bit slow because it operates like a decentralized VPN.
Waterfox browser is built on Mozilla's Gecko Engine just like firefox, but it isn't managed directly by Mozilla.
I haven't heard of waterfox. I use TorBrowser sometimes. But mostly I use LibreWolf. Its based on Firefox also, but without Monzilla
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Is waterfox compatible with all or most firefox extensions? Also, can you import a firefox profile, and share between devices? I'm fairly invested in firefox, and would hate loosing functionality
I don't use very many extensions, but it works with all of the ones I've tried such as uBlock Origin.
