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  3. Russia has depleted its tank stocks: the industry is not covering combat losses

Russia has depleted its tank stocks: the industry is not covering combat losses

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  • S [email protected]
    This post did not contain any content.
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    wrote on last edited by
    #6

    Yet we must triple up military budget in case they decide to invade whole europe on empty tanks...

    S fingolfinz@lemmy.worldF H spacecowboy@lemmy.caS mubelotix@jlai.luM 5 Replies Last reply
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    • M [email protected]

      decommissioned = destroyed? Funny way of describing it.

      C This user is from outside of this forum
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      wrote on last edited by
      #7

      No but non-functional can be considered destroyed in this context...

      S 1 Reply Last reply
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      • S [email protected]
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        transplantedsconie@lemm.eeT This user is from outside of this forum
        transplantedsconie@lemm.eeT This user is from outside of this forum
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        wrote on last edited by
        #8

        Amazing.

        SLAVA UKRAINI!

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        • L [email protected]

          I really hope Russia is collapsing soon so Ukraians can have actual peace.

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          wrote on last edited by
          #9

          Agreed. I want the killing to stop and Russia to stop it's conquest.

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          • J [email protected]

            It's seriously astonishing that they managed to wear though the entire massive Soviet stockpile.

            Covert Cobal has great tank and apv counting vids, documenting the ever worsening condition of the vehicles remaining.
            https://youtube.com/@covertcabal

            a_norny_mousse@feddit.orgA This user is from outside of this forum
            a_norny_mousse@feddit.orgA This user is from outside of this forum
            [email protected]
            wrote on last edited by
            #10

            I seem to remember they were using actual WW2 tanks?

            J 1 Reply Last reply
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            • S [email protected]
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              a_norny_mousse@feddit.orgA This user is from outside of this forum
              a_norny_mousse@feddit.orgA This user is from outside of this forum
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              wrote on last edited by
              #11

              Here's to hoping 🍻

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • L [email protected]

                I really hope Russia is collapsing soon so Ukraians can have actual peace.

                R This user is from outside of this forum
                R This user is from outside of this forum
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                wrote on last edited by
                #12

                And the world. Fuckers have infected everything

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                • a_norny_mousse@feddit.orgA [email protected]

                  I seem to remember they were using actual WW2 tanks?

                  J This user is from outside of this forum
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                  wrote on last edited by
                  #13

                  Yup. Not because they were out of more modern tanks yet at that point, but because the more modern tanks took longer to refurbish. But now they really are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

                  a_norny_mousse@feddit.orgA 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • S [email protected]
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                    wrote on last edited by
                    #14

                    According to the researchers, even though there are still about 4,700 tanks in storage, most of them will be difficult to restore due to their poor technical condition.

                    This is Russia though - "poor technical condition" is "ready for service."

                    J C Y W 4 Replies Last reply
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                    • I [email protected]

                      Yet we must triple up military budget in case they decide to invade whole europe on empty tanks...

                      S This user is from outside of this forum
                      S This user is from outside of this forum
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                      wrote on last edited by
                      #15

                      I'm going to go with what European military leaders are saying, out loud and in public. God knows what those leaders really know and talk about.

                      I'm guessing you're European? Well, you've had 80 years of mostly peace and prosperity. Timed to get armed, personally. (Yes my fellow Americans, Europeans can acquire guns without too much hassle. Yes, real guns. Gun ownership just isn't a major part of their culture like it is over here.)

                      If you're allergic to guns, consider these two scenarios:

                      1. Hostile foreign power invades America.

                      2. Hostile foreign power invades Europe.

                      In which case do you expect the invader to suffer the most? Which case do you consider more likely?

                      S I I 3 Replies Last reply
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                      • A [email protected]

                        According to the researchers, even though there are still about 4,700 tanks in storage, most of them will be difficult to restore due to their poor technical condition.

                        This is Russia though - "poor technical condition" is "ready for service."

                        J This user is from outside of this forum
                        J This user is from outside of this forum
                        [email protected]
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #16

                        Covert Cobal has been classifying in mainly 4 categories. Abysmal is the lowest one, and are often missing such minor accessories as the turet, tracks, engines, and wheels. Not to mention having sat outdoors for upwards of 50 years. Those conditions are mostly what they're down to. It might allow for slightly higher throughout on production to start on these rusted husks rather than from raw steel, but it'd definitely be harder and more expensive to make these usable than to build a new tank from scratch.

                        https://youtube.com/@covertcabal

                        M ? 2 Replies Last reply
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                        • I [email protected]

                          Yet we must triple up military budget in case they decide to invade whole europe on empty tanks...

                          fingolfinz@lemmy.worldF This user is from outside of this forum
                          fingolfinz@lemmy.worldF This user is from outside of this forum
                          [email protected]
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #17

                          Shut up, cuck

                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • S [email protected]
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                            wrote on last edited by
                            #18

                            I hope this hits Russia hard, but I wonder how much Russia needs tanks at this stage of the war vs a breadth and depth of infantry and artillery reserves.

                            Main battle tanks are for punching through enemy defenses and making a run on enclosing enemy forces/enemy territory.

                            Once you capture that territory tanks are still very much useful, especially because of their mobility and ability to reposition quickly, but they aren't necessary in the same way that you need some kind of tank or something behaving like a tank in the maneuver portion of the war. Even if Ukraine counterattacks with main battle tanks, the most effective counters in that case are artillery, entrenched infantry, and mechanized infantry with effective AT that can respond and reposition to slow down armored columns attempting to break through their front lines. Don't get me wrong, tanks would absolutely decisively help too, but if I had to choose between depriving Russia of artillery and depriving Russia of tanks, I would choose artillery. I mean... obviously but especially at this stage of the war.

                            Who knows though, I hope Ukraine can get a steady supply of main battle tanks from someone (do they currently?), if Russia can't field main battle tanks even if it doesn't immediately affect the strategic balance of the war, the immediate psychological impact and tactical efficiency of tanks chewing through emplaced machine gun nests and enemy positions will be huge. No matter where you are on the battlefield you know that if Ukranians show up with an actual main battle tank, you are fucked as a Russian unless you have a whole lot of artillery/air support at the ready.

                            setsneedtofeed@lemmy.worldS 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • S [email protected]
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                              wrote on last edited by
                              #19

                              the industry is not covering combat losses

                              Since it's not clear from the headline, that the restoration industry. We're not even talking about the production of new tanks (which was never that impressive during this full-scale war).

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                              • A [email protected]

                                According to the researchers, even though there are still about 4,700 tanks in storage, most of them will be difficult to restore due to their poor technical condition.

                                This is Russia though - "poor technical condition" is "ready for service."

                                C This user is from outside of this forum
                                C This user is from outside of this forum
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                                wrote on last edited by
                                #20

                                Nah, adjust for Russian standards in what that even means. It has to be able to drive off the base.

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                                • L [email protected]

                                  I really hope Russia is collapsing soon so Ukraians can have actual peace.

                                  C This user is from outside of this forum
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                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #21

                                  Don’t worry, the US will probably bail Russia out to keep that from happening

                                  A 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • S [email protected]

                                    I'm going to go with what European military leaders are saying, out loud and in public. God knows what those leaders really know and talk about.

                                    I'm guessing you're European? Well, you've had 80 years of mostly peace and prosperity. Timed to get armed, personally. (Yes my fellow Americans, Europeans can acquire guns without too much hassle. Yes, real guns. Gun ownership just isn't a major part of their culture like it is over here.)

                                    If you're allergic to guns, consider these two scenarios:

                                    1. Hostile foreign power invades America.

                                    2. Hostile foreign power invades Europe.

                                    In which case do you expect the invader to suffer the most? Which case do you consider more likely?

                                    S This user is from outside of this forum
                                    S This user is from outside of this forum
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                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #22

                                    You are ignoring the elephant in the room, which is that a rising sense of militarism quickly feeds into a decay of your society, if you make an incredible amount of guns somebody is going to use them, that is how these things work.

                                    I am not saying Europe shouldn't absolutely take being able to militarily counter Russia seriously, as they should any regional threat, but what is needed isn't necessarily to reshape Europe into a hypermilitarized environment, especially in the area of police and the militarization of police, what Europe needs is to make sure it has effective counters to a mass, mechanized land war.

                                    One of the most effective counters, and a decisive element of the war in Ukranian has been HIMARs, long range missiles capable of striking mobile Russian SAM assets and other high value targets from extremely far away. These make maneuvering a large concentrated armored force much much much more costly and dangerous.

                                    ...but this all devolves into a sense of militarism that undermines the original reason for making all the guns in the first place, it is just a matter of how far you can push it in your society before that cancer becomes terminal... see the U.S. as a prime example....

                                    I 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • J [email protected]

                                      It's seriously astonishing that they managed to wear though the entire massive Soviet stockpile.

                                      Covert Cobal has great tank and apv counting vids, documenting the ever worsening condition of the vehicles remaining.
                                      https://youtube.com/@covertcabal

                                      C This user is from outside of this forum
                                      C This user is from outside of this forum
                                      [email protected]
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #23

                                      Yes. Back when analysts used to talk about a war with Russia pre-2022, something you heard pretty often was "they're not as advanced, but they have so much stockpiled armour".

                                      This is like America running out of guns or Canada running out of syrup.

                                      S 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • S [email protected]

                                        I'm going to go with what European military leaders are saying, out loud and in public. God knows what those leaders really know and talk about.

                                        I'm guessing you're European? Well, you've had 80 years of mostly peace and prosperity. Timed to get armed, personally. (Yes my fellow Americans, Europeans can acquire guns without too much hassle. Yes, real guns. Gun ownership just isn't a major part of their culture like it is over here.)

                                        If you're allergic to guns, consider these two scenarios:

                                        1. Hostile foreign power invades America.

                                        2. Hostile foreign power invades Europe.

                                        In which case do you expect the invader to suffer the most? Which case do you consider more likely?

                                        I This user is from outside of this forum
                                        I This user is from outside of this forum
                                        [email protected]
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #24

                                        European leaders are already talking about using the new army to invade the Middle East.

                                        H I 2 Replies Last reply
                                        0
                                        • C [email protected]

                                          No but non-functional can be considered destroyed in this context...

                                          S This user is from outside of this forum
                                          S This user is from outside of this forum
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                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #25

                                          Even in modern war, a significant amount of armor is lost not from literally being blown up, but from breaking, getting stuck, being abandoned after a flank cuts off retreat in a vehicle etc...

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