Billionaire Sunjay Kapur has died after swallowing a bee at a polo match
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iirc Epi-pen is the usual treatment, and those things are pretty easy to obtain.
I think that OP philpo is on to something, that the medical staff was a bit slow to deal with the situation.
Honestly, I think it was ignorance and/or hubris. He was either unaware of his allergy (miraculously never stung before, or developed allergy later in life), or he was kind of aware, but never assumed anything could go wrong.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -- Hanlon's Razor.
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iirc Epi-pen is the usual treatment, and those things are pretty easy to obtain.
I think that OP philpo is on to something, that the medical staff was a bit slow to deal with the situation.
With anaphylactic shock, the timeline could be literally seconds. He could be dead before they even figure out what's wrong.
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Didn't even think it about it not being a honey a bee. You're right.
I just learned about solitary bees a few years ago. For some reason it has never cross my mind until I was researching these unusual blue bees in my garden which turned out to bee Blue Banded Bee which is awesome:
https://www.fotocommunity.com/photo/blue-banded-bee-flight-karthikphotography/27046849
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Sic semper apiaster
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My [sister/brother/other] in [insert deity] have you forgotten that in almost every place on the globe food is purchased with money? And that money is also how you buy politicians? One billionaire absolutely could solve hunger through a combination of direct donation and political spending.
While money is used to by goods and services, it isn't those goods and services. It's essentially a measure of resource allocation. More money means you get more resources.
People don't go hungry due to lack of money, they go hungry due to lack of food. In an area undergoing famine, you can give people money and they'll buy food. This means people who were eating before are now going hungry. If you keep giving out money, the price of food starts to rise. Keep going, and eventually it's cheaper to leave the country than it is to buy food.
The systemic causes of hunger are complex. The complexity is sufficient that fixing them would take more money than any billionaire has.
In the US for example, we keep production high and costs low by subsidizing agriculture to the tune of $30-60 billion a year. We give individuals about $115 billion a year in money to buy food. Another $3 billion for emergency food aid. Another $25 billion for lunch for school children. Then there's intangibles, like a side effect of food subsidies being the government owning millions of tons of milk, cheese and produce that it just gives to people. Not cheap, but difficult to quantify exactly.
This all has side effects and weird consequences. Like agricultural subsidies driving down costs of grain for the entire world, making it unprofitable to be a farmer in areas with borderline arable land and causing communities to depend on imports for food, making global food market fluctuations another source of famine risk. There's also some obesity and other health impacts, as well as things like improved academic performance, but those aren't relevant to this.To actually solve the issue, you need to invest in agricultural development. The US government spends another $200 billion a year on this. Basically, instead of just buying food or paying people to grow it, you need to invest in the tools to do so, and to manage pests and everything. Roads, water, tractors, bulldozers, powerplants, education, and all the things that support those things.
All told, the US government spends about $500 billion a year on this, and it's given us a consistently high ranking in food security indexes, with food being generally affordable and safe, and slightly less available, depending on the economy. All that, and only about 50 million people are in food insecure positions in the country.
This is before we get to the costs of doing foreign food aid.
There are billions of food insecure people on earth, and 700 million hungry.Elon musk liquidating all his assets at face value couldn't cover the bill for one year in the country that needs the least assistance.
That being said, while they can't solve it they're certainly part of the cause. The systemic failures that have led to hunger are embodied in them. If we decided to not allow billionaires to exist, we'd be making changes to society that would actually allow us to make those expensive and overwhelming changes to solve the problems above.
One person doesn't have the resources to build roads and infrastructure needed to build the infrastructure needed to support modern farming in areas that can only scrape by, teach people the new methods needed, teach the people needed to support those people, and all of that again for getting the food to the people who need it. But if society decided people like that shouldn't exist, the resources spent so that some portion of the resources end up in their pocket would be enough to do that. -
The question I ask myself is: You have that much money,you have a private jet on standby, a large security detail.
And none fucking thought about getting competent medical team or at least a fucking competent paramedic?
I mean....I am generally unsympathetic amongst almost all billionaires, but as someone who has literally done VIP escorts as a critical care paramedic I wonder who fucked up that much.(But these were all "old wealth" and actually were not billionaires. And tbh they treated us with more respect than most members of the public do-that gives them at least some plus point)It's not like Airway obstruction nor anaphylaxis is untreatable/isn't absolutely manageable if caught early.
Anyway, can we please get a fundraiser for the poor queen of that bee?
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Anyway, can we please get a fundraiser for the poor queen of that bee?
It's on the front page of GoFundBee!
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That whole issue sounds incredibly stupid from the outside. Would there be the same outrage if someone named their kid Ghengis? He killed even more people. Or Vlad, as in Vlad the Impaler? Or Joseph as in Joseph Stalin? Looking at this with an outside perspective, it truly sounds as the whole thing is fabricated because people just hate the marriage between a Hindu and a Muslim.
They just keep doing it and its not that long ago, also the way celebs are already treated like royalty in india its sus af to name your kids godking emperor above all
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I don't know which med school or civilian lifesaving courses you attend - but emergency cricothyrotomy surely isn't a skill that is taught and mastered by any of these I teach.
Cric is a delicate skill that needs repetition and knowledge - it's far from easy and not even close to what is shown in some bad TV shows.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Edit, I am not saying "do this". I was running my ideas past this medical person in the hope of being told what is wring with them.
As a civilian what I know is hit the notch in hard cartilege approx 2 fingers below the Adam's apple, incision half an inch deep, and if you get the tube in you have to breathe for them.
And that you should only do it if there are no medical people present and the person is obviously dying.
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They are both part of the hymenoptera order. They are not the same, but they are related evolutionarily and thus can still be relevant to discussion about bees.
They’re not relevant to this discussion, at all. In general, when a bee stings a person they die because their stinger along with their insides rip out of them. This doesn’t happen with wasps, including yellow jackets. They can and will sting over and over.
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Edit, I am not saying "do this". I was running my ideas past this medical person in the hope of being told what is wring with them.
As a civilian what I know is hit the notch in hard cartilege approx 2 fingers below the Adam's apple, incision half an inch deep, and if you get the tube in you have to breathe for them.
And that you should only do it if there are no medical people present and the person is obviously dying.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]So... how do you tell an airway obstruction requiring an improvised tracheotomy and a similarly-presenting respiratory distress (resulting from, say, catastrophically low blood potassium) apart? Because if you get that wrong suddenly someone, who needed at worst an hour of IV therapy and a flintstone chewable to make a full recovery, is drowning in their own blood.
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So... how do you tell an airway obstruction requiring an improvised tracheotomy and a similarly-presenting respiratory distress (resulting from, say, catastrophically low blood potassium) apart? Because if you get that wrong suddenly someone, who needed at worst an hour of IV therapy and a flintstone chewable to make a full recovery, is drowning in their own blood.
Thank you, this is the kind of reply I was hoping for. I would love more information.
So, if the person has completely stopped breathing, and ambulances are 20+ minutes away, should I limit my response to attempted CPR?
Is it your opinion even if they have been stung by a bee etc?
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Edit, I am not saying "do this". I was running my ideas past this medical person in the hope of being told what is wring with them.
As a civilian what I know is hit the notch in hard cartilege approx 2 fingers below the Adam's apple, incision half an inch deep, and if you get the tube in you have to breathe for them.
And that you should only do it if there are no medical people present and the person is obviously dying.
Nothing beats a layman explaining the job most professionals won't do to a professional who does it.
BTW: This is all wrong and will make things worse.
Please don't do what this dude writes. -
Thank you, this is the kind of reply I was hoping for. I would love more information.
So, if the person has completely stopped breathing, and ambulances are 20+ minutes away, should I limit my response to attempted CPR?
Is it your opinion even if they have been stung by a bee etc?
So, if the person has completely stopped breathing, and ambulances are 20+ minutes away, should I limit my response to attempted CPR?
The answer is: YES
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Thank you, this is the kind of reply I was hoping for. I would love more information.
So, if the person has completely stopped breathing, and ambulances are 20+ minutes away, should I limit my response to attempted CPR?
Is it your opinion even if they have been stung by a bee etc?
wrote on last edited by [email protected]I'm assuming you've contacted 911 / emergency services since you know that the ambulance is 20 minutes away. In that case, the dispatcher will step you through an emergency diagnosis and if such an extreme action is warranted either they will put you in touch with a medical professional who can instruct you on safe procedure, or they will be a qualified paramedic and instruct you themselves. However that is EXTREMELY unlikely, tracheotomy are almost never warranted (outside of television) in emergency situations, as stabbing someone in the neck is not a trivial thing to do. In my region the procedure isn't even taught to first responders (Edit: I was half wrong, paramedics still learn it but EMTs do not) (Edit 2: No, I was right! Neither are taught it) as it's long been surpassed by modern intubation techniques and treatments like fast-acting anaphylaxis medications.
In short, follow the guidelines you are taught in your first aid class and contact emergency services. Don't stab someone in the neck.
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With anaphylactic shock, the timeline could be literally seconds. He could be dead before they even figure out what's wrong.
Anaphylaxis sets in fast,but not within seconds - we are talking more like a couple of minutes and they can be treated.
Adrenaline is one component of the treatment besides other medications (that actually "counteracts" the anaphylactic reaction, Adrenaline more or less is mainly used to buy time and fight the worst symptoms).Airway management, fluid management, etc. are other things we need to consider.
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They’re not relevant to this discussion, at all. In general, when a bee stings a person they die because their stinger along with their insides rip out of them. This doesn’t happen with wasps, including yellow jackets. They can and will sting over and over.
Because their stingers are smooth, like bumblebees and carpenter bees. Are those not related either??
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Honestly, I think it was ignorance and/or hubris. He was either unaware of his allergy (miraculously never stung before, or developed allergy later in life), or he was kind of aware, but never assumed anything could go wrong.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -- Hanlon's Razor.
I've never been to a billionaire polo match [sad trumpet] but I'd assume that there be some medical staff, like you'd find at any major sporting event where injury is likely. On the other hand, I could see how the staff was prepared for a broken neck and not considering bee stings. Either way, it's pretty funny.
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With anaphylactic shock, the timeline could be literally seconds. He could be dead before they even figure out what's wrong.
This is where caring counts. We've all seen videos where 'dad reflexes' kick in and someone reacts in micro-seconds to save a kid. Medical staff was getting paid to show up and be on stand-by. They were expecting a broken leg, or other trauma.
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I don't know which med school or civilian lifesaving courses you attend - but emergency cricothyrotomy surely isn't a skill that is taught and mastered by any of these I teach.
Cric is a delicate skill that needs repetition and knowledge - it's far from easy and not even close to what is shown in some bad TV shows.
As it came up here a bit of a longer explanation.
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Airway management contains much more than just "getting a hole into the neck" - it starts with nebulised adrenaline (which works wonders but must be used in moderation due to the side effects), regular endotracheal intubation with a (preferably video)laryngoscope, if necessary with a tube that is resistant against swelling(woodbridge tube) before a cricothyrotomy (not a tracheotomy,see below) is performed - and is supported by intravasal drugs (mostly adrenaline, a glucocorticoid and H1 blockers, in some cases also a beta2 antagonist and a anticholinergic agent). A cric is always the last choice due to the high risk to benefit ratio.
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Even a qualified responder won't do a tracheotomy - emergency tracheotomies are extremly rare and basically only necessary when either the pharyngeal structures are damaged beyond rescue (due to trauma, cancer or some real rare diseases. This is not the case in anaphylaxis. The reasons for a tracheotomy not being used are many. It takes a lot of time,is far harder to achieve (getting between the tracheal cartilage is not as easy as it sounds), the risk of "hitting" structures that are vital to the patient are considerable (seen a patient who's v.jug. ran over the spot) and the required training to do it is considerable - Besides ENTs and sometimes intensivists around here none therefore is even trained to do it anymore. I occasionally teach emergency surgical techniques to interns and med students and we don't do so,beyond explaining the core concept, neither does any uni in central or northern Europe that I know of, same goes for AU/NZ.
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A "cric" is far easier, but still takes some skill - both needle or open surgical cric(I would prefer the later) does require correct identification of the landmarks (which can be tough), good surgical technique and mainly: Training - lots of it. We therefore teach paramedics only a needle based approach (in combination with jet ventilation) - and tbh, most EM docs are not that "up to standard" in this technique as well - even though a cric is far easier than a trach.
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The technique mentioned here will, with a 95% chance, not lead to any airway access, damage the thyroid (which bleeds like fuck) or the vagina carotica (the structure that contains the large vessels in the neck as well as the nervus vagus). If that happens the patient is usually beyond rescue. A case that, even if in cardiac arrest, had at least a slim chance of survival, will then certainly die - post anaphylaxis arrests with good bystander CPR have a somewhat improved prognosis - considering that that a laymans trach likely would diminish chest compression quality for minutes this would simply take that chance away from the patient.
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Whoever thinks he needs to teach that in civilan responder courses needs to be fired - it's not part in any curriculum worldwide as they are all more or less based on the same guidelines.
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I just learned about solitary bees a few years ago. For some reason it has never cross my mind until I was researching these unusual blue bees in my garden which turned out to bee Blue Banded Bee which is awesome:
https://www.fotocommunity.com/photo/blue-banded-bee-flight-karthikphotography/27046849
Wow! That's amazing, I've never heard of a blue bee. That's just really cool. I bet it was confusing when you first saw it. I've heard of/seen solitary bees but didn't think about it. Did a little beekeeping work as a kid.
We've got a couple weird ones on the other side of the pond that I've been around. (wasps, actually)
Cow killer/Red velvet ant it's sting is in the top 10 for most painful. They're beautiful.
Cicada Killers are huge, 5cm/2in long. I had one fall out of a tree with a cicada right next to me. I thought it was birds fighting.
