My reason for wanting HomeAssistant and a locked down VLAN...
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/32265822
xkcd #3109: Dehumidifier
Title text:
It's important for devices to have internet connectivity so the manufacturer can patch remote exploits.
Transcript:
[A store salesman, Hairy, is showing Cueball a dehumidifier, with a "SALE" label on it. Several other unidentified devices, possibly other dehumidifier models, are shown in the store as well.]
Salesman: This dehumidifier model features built-in WiFi for remote updates.
Cueball: Great! That will be really useful if they discover a new kind of water.Source: https://xkcd.com/3109/
My house has manual windows, manual locks, and a dumb garage door controller... because I work in IT.
I do have a few smart appliances (environment reporting) but they are only allowed on the banishment VLAN so they don't get to interact with any single appliance inside my network. All they see is internet and nothing else.
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I was an idiot and bought a high end TPLink router, I can't even use Vlans without signing up for their back door service.
Shit, are consumer appliances really getting that bad? ew!
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Shit, are consumer appliances really getting that bad? ew!
wrote on last edited by [email protected]I'd assume all Chinese devices are being backdoored via CCP incentives. Buy Asus perhaps, assuming Taiwan never gets infiltrated.
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I was an idiot and bought a high end TPLink router, I can't even use Vlans without signing up for their back door service.
I was an idiot and bought a high end TPLink router, I can’t even use Vlans without signing up for their back door service.
Hm, at least with their enterprise equipment you can completely disable Omada.
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I was an idiot and bought a high end TPLink router, I can't even use Vlans without signing up for their back door service.
maybe install openwrt/ddwrt?
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You lost a bit of credibility when you misspelt atoms
That's just because I'm using a pH from Like 2008 and it has progressively stupid autocorrect.
Even when I correct it if I don't spacial go to the next would and then do back it will change what I said.
As an example I just left this how it wasn't me too.
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/32265822
xkcd #3109: Dehumidifier
Title text:
It's important for devices to have internet connectivity so the manufacturer can patch remote exploits.
Transcript:
[A store salesman, Hairy, is showing Cueball a dehumidifier, with a "SALE" label on it. Several other unidentified devices, possibly other dehumidifier models, are shown in the store as well.]
Salesman: This dehumidifier model features built-in WiFi for remote updates.
Cueball: Great! That will be really useful if they discover a new kind of water.Source: https://xkcd.com/3109/
Yeah, companies have abused that to release buggy, incomplete products faster and only make the software stable and feature complete if they make a good profit.
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And you must enter password through a 2 character wide menu screen with only up and down arrows
The up arrow moves through the letters, e.g., A->B->C. The down arrow moves to the next character in the sequence, e.g., C->CA->CAA. If you click past the correct letter, you’ll have to click all the way through again. And if you submit the wrong letter, you have to start all over (after it takes twenty seconds attempting to connect with the wrong password and then alerts you that it didn’t work, of course).
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This has been my approach and it has gone okay so far except for 2 issues that are quite a pain:
1: you have to thoroughly research what you buy. Does it work on an isolated vlan? Just because it works with home assistant does not guarantee this. Many home assistant users are comfortable with some degree of data collection and an integration does not mean that it will work local only (nor does it mean that all features will work). If it does work local only you may sacrifice some features. Cameras are a good example. Most cameras with object/person detection do this in hardware, but not all. If you circumvent the Internet connection and proprietary app you may sacrifice this, or more likely alerts
2: there is 0 regulation binding a vendor to the terms of service agreed to at the point of sale, including making significant and sweeping changes. Case in point: I got a chamberlain myQ garage door opener. It worked well and opened my garage door. Integrated with home assistant via the API. However, chamberlain serves a lot of ads for upsells and services via their shitty app. They decided that users circumventing the app and not seeing that you could give amazon drivers access to your garage to deliver packages (seriously) or buy shitty cameras was unacceptable so they updated the TOS and revoked API access for all users. The only way it works now is via their app. I sold mine and built a ratgdo
Another example is Philips hue: while they have been able to be used local only for over a decade Philips has decided they’re going to start a subscription security service with all the devices that entails based around the hue hub. At some point in the near future if your hub updates it will require you to sign in to a Philips account and be online. This one’s way worse as some people have thousands of dollars invested in hue. I have like $300 in the fancier white hue bulbs but some people on the HA forums and reddit literally have their house decked out with like 80-100 bulbs, many of which are the RGB. Kind of silly but they do work very well, flicker free, good color, and last ages. I still have some from like 2016 going strong. Luckily here if you have the bridge on an isolated vlan it won’t update and worst case the bulbs work with
zwavezigbee but the principle of the thing is ridiculous. It should be illegal for a company to change the terms this far after the contract of saleOther examples too. Many car manufacturers (Mazda, Chevrolet, ford) because api access limited data collection for them to sell, some companies are openly hostile to home assistant and when an integration is created they will go out of their way to break it (Ariston, bambu), etc. see https://github.com/unixorn/internet-of-trash
I thought Hue bulbs used Zigbee?
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Yeah, companies have abused that to release buggy, incomplete products faster and only make the software stable and feature complete if they make a good profit.
Or add new bloat features / brick devices after updating TOS...
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/32265822
xkcd #3109: Dehumidifier
Title text:
It's important for devices to have internet connectivity so the manufacturer can patch remote exploits.
Transcript:
[A store salesman, Hairy, is showing Cueball a dehumidifier, with a "SALE" label on it. Several other unidentified devices, possibly other dehumidifier models, are shown in the store as well.]
Salesman: This dehumidifier model features built-in WiFi for remote updates.
Cueball: Great! That will be really useful if they discover a new kind of water.Source: https://xkcd.com/3109/
i love it when my vacum makes a remote connction to a other countrye goverment that way i get tracked by mine and theres whatba time we live in
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I have a rule that "Nothing will be automated that cannot be manually overridden."
Well, actually it's my wife's rule but it's a good rule nonetheless.
As a result, there's a big panel full of relays in the basement that is the "last mile" for anything climate control or security related.There have been a few times when it's been handy. Like when the exhaust fan isn't working and I don't want to debug the ESP32 controller today so I just flip it over to "Manual".
wrote on last edited by [email protected]KNX.
Everything is decentrally programmed, and you can do extra automations and stuff from home assistant, but KNX devices are wired (generally) and will always Just Work
. More expensive that the cheaper retrofit options, but if you factor in manual overrides or getting the "better" wireless smart devices it is comparable. They generally also have a manual override at the panel. For core functions like lights, HVAC, roll shutters or blinds, etc... That is honestly the best option (unless you want every light to be an RGB light for some reason, then you still need smart bulbs) -
I thought Hue bulbs used Zigbee?
you’re right, my bad
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Gahhhh...
Sounds like a total PITA
And yes we need stronger consumer protections.
I follow FUTO so I'm aware of TOS BS.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]I’ve been happy with reolink cameras fwiw though not 100% so. They do have some nonsense though
I also prefer Lutron Caseta for lighting. It’s fairly bulletproof (I’ve literally never had any connectivity issues in like 6+ years) and they haven’t pulled any tos nonsense as far as I know. Downside is pricey and the install is more complex than typical iot stuff. And while they can control outlets they are only rated for 10A lighting so keep that in mind.
The only internet requirement for both of these (not always with reolink I think but at least with the cameras I have) is that you have to allow internet once during initial setup to pair devices. Once that is done you can remove internet access and delete the app
The common thread with these is wired too. The further along I go the more I realize that 2.4ghz WiFi iot shit is garbage. going from WiFi cameras that had privacy concerns and disconnected to local only poe cameras that just work was very nice. Learn from my mistake, don’t buy bullshit eufy cameras that you then have to sell at a loss.
And for your own sanity don’t try to get smart smoke detectors. Your options are either Google/nest that apparently does work well (never tried it, fuck Google), the new kidde that is built into amazons ring platform (never tried it, fuck amazon, plus the preceding model had awful reviews), or the new firstalert that is replacing the Google/nest (again, fuck Google, but I did try the preceeding first alert and it was atrociously bad).
I mention this because this brings up a key issue with regulatory compliance in the US (and probably EU, dunno). You can also try a number of off brand detectors as well that apparently work a lot better. If you search amazon for smart detectors you’ll see stuff like x sense and these apparently have somewhat solid reviews and work okay (though getting them to work in HA is mixed).
However, what amazon fails to mention is that these types of detectors have not been submitted for regulatory compliance in the US (unlike Kidde, firstalert, etc that you’d find at a home depot). They “meet UL requirements” but they have not been submitted for testing so they cannot print the UL logo on the box (legally) but they can write “meets UL requirements”, which is misleading. Fuck amazon and fuck the us government for giving them no culpability in selling obscenely dangerous bullshit
This means if you use these and your house burns down your insurance could technically nullify your policy for not having adequate protection. Or they could not work and you could die, of course
There are smart relays you can tie into an interconnected smoke detector circuit using normal smoke detectors that are appropriately rated if you do want alerts on your phone. There are also device that will listen for chirps but these get false positives
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Or add new bloat features / brick devices after updating TOS...
Remote device bricking is cheaper than researching part wear for planned obsolescence.
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We do have more than one type of water, D~2~0, HD0, HT0, T~2~0, DTO, which are all different mixtures of Hydrogen, Deuterium and Tritium or in other words the hydrogen has more neutrons, there is also a different ionization for each of those, plus there are different phases of ice which are made from different pressure that is ice I-VII, and it's not impossible for more types we don't know about, then there is isotopic water that have different mass and reaction rates and it's not impossible for other types that we just don't know about or even to create other types.
Tldr: atoms and molecules are more varied and complex than you'd think.
Right, but none of them are new. They've all been around for billions of years.
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My house has manual windows, manual locks, and a dumb garage door controller... because I work in IT.
I do have a few smart appliances (environment reporting) but they are only allowed on the banishment VLAN so they don't get to interact with any single appliance inside my network. All they see is internet and nothing else.
The S in IoT stands for security
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Remote device bricking is cheaper than researching part wear for planned obsolescence.
And both make me go with a different company next time so idk what they think they're gaining.
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/32265822
xkcd #3109: Dehumidifier
Title text:
It's important for devices to have internet connectivity so the manufacturer can patch remote exploits.
Transcript:
[A store salesman, Hairy, is showing Cueball a dehumidifier, with a "SALE" label on it. Several other unidentified devices, possibly other dehumidifier models, are shown in the store as well.]
Salesman: This dehumidifier model features built-in WiFi for remote updates.
Cueball: Great! That will be really useful if they discover a new kind of water.Source: https://xkcd.com/3109/
New kinds of water, you say? The marketing department is already on it and boy have I got news for you!
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New kinds of water, you say? The marketing department is already on it and boy have I got news for you!
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Wait... Is that heavy water?? /s
