Anon has a warning for incels
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I mean, there's nothing wrong with improving yourself for the sake of improving yourself.
Robots arms it is
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"Misery loves company."
Stephen King's Misery 2
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Damn. I know the community tab here says I'm not suppose to agree with anon, but damn, I have to
This tab seems to be written for the mod to deflect accusation of supporting the Lemmy-unapproved dark sides of 4chan that may come up in green texts.
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But what if you improve yourself and then become a better person for nothing?
Surprise, surprise, you reached Nirvana.
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The same is true on a political level which is a crab bucket when they tell you that things can't improve and that you shouldn't even have any hopes.
Whenever thereās a post about a protest, or a politician actually works to block a Trump bill, thereās always someone who pops into the comments to go āiT wOnāT cHaNgE aNyThInG.ā
Itās pretty clear whoās never taken any sort of political action before in their lives. Those that participate in activism know that change doesnāt happen in one big event, but momentum snowballs over time. Discouraging people who put effort into change only works to empower those who oppress us.
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Damn. I know the community tab here says I'm not suppose to agree with anon, but damn, I have to
You... bothered to read the rules... in a 4chan focused community?
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You... bothered to read the rules... in a 4chan focused community?
Yes
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I would even say don't worry too much about self-improvement. It's a vague concept that encourages you to be perpetually dissatisfied (possibly to sell you stuff).
You can always be satisfied with who you are. Remember how Mr. Rogers likes you just the way you are? You can extend that kindness to yourself. Once you've done that, then you are in the right headspace to lose some weight or improve your income or whatever.
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Idk, if "doing you" means never leaving home, you're not getting chances to actually find someone that you intersect with. You do need to make a conscious effort to put yourself out there so you have those chances, and you should put some effort into improving your confidence to maximize your chances. Don't change who you are to please someone, but do shower and put on a clean shirt.
Not really the point of what I am saying. I am speaking for the other person too without bias or assumptions and I am not pushing anyone to conform to some stereotype. If you're happy wearing dirty shirts, not showering, and staying at home, that is perfectly valid. You can and should just be yourself. If you feel the need to be someone else or wear any mask of assumption or conformity, you're potentially hurting someone else and offering a fake version of yourself. If you're lonely, pursue your curiosity in spaces where other people interact. Don't just go to where you might find people. You do not exist in that space; that is not you. On a subtle non obvious level, going to a space for not you reasons like this is predatory.
I am actually saying, you're allowed to be happy or content with whatever state of self awareness and intelligent engagement you push yourself to achieve. The pursuit of raw self motivated curiosity is the only way to expand self awareness from within and grow. When motivated purely from within one's self, one will eventually achieve one's true potential while being true to self.
No one deserves to partner with someone that later never showers and never leaves the house after they remove the mask of their true self.
So you see, I'm saying the same thing but with the nuance of the best interests of all parties involved. Don't tell people to conform to combat loneliness. Make an attempt to inspire their curiosity and self growth if you feel like you've spotted some inadequacy, but ultimately let them be themselves so that they are not masking to hurt someone else.
Relationships certainly can and do change people, but let those that want to change someone find their query in the true depths of the coal mine if they choose lest they unwittingly find themselves on an impossible journey to the center of the Earth.
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Goddamn right, Bob.
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I would even say don't worry too much about self-improvement. It's a vague concept that encourages you to be perpetually dissatisfied (possibly to sell you stuff).
You can always be satisfied with who you are. Remember how Mr. Rogers likes you just the way you are? You can extend that kindness to yourself. Once you've done that, then you are in the right headspace to lose some weight or improve your income or whatever.
Very well said.
Love from others comes after a love of self.
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I would even say don't worry too much about self-improvement. It's a vague concept that encourages you to be perpetually dissatisfied (possibly to sell you stuff).
You can always be satisfied with who you are. Remember how Mr. Rogers likes you just the way you are? You can extend that kindness to yourself. Once you've done that, then you are in the right headspace to lose some weight or improve your income or whatever.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I agree, in that āself improvementā is a fairly nebulous concept and acceptance of the self is a positive trait, but they should probably still look to improve themselves. Exercise, volunteer, pick up a hobby outside the house, cut off your toxic community and find another, etc.. Volunteering and community tend to go together, from my experience, so Iād start there.
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Which is why the Lemmy equivalent has banned that type of thinking/posts.
thinking is overrated anyways
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I would even say don't worry too much about self-improvement. It's a vague concept that encourages you to be perpetually dissatisfied (possibly to sell you stuff).
You can always be satisfied with who you are. Remember how Mr. Rogers likes you just the way you are? You can extend that kindness to yourself. Once you've done that, then you are in the right headspace to lose some weight or improve your income or whatever.
Isn't self-acceptance considered self-improvement?
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I would even say don't worry too much about self-improvement. It's a vague concept that encourages you to be perpetually dissatisfied (possibly to sell you stuff).
You can always be satisfied with who you are. Remember how Mr. Rogers likes you just the way you are? You can extend that kindness to yourself. Once you've done that, then you are in the right headspace to lose some weight or improve your income or whatever.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I don't think you are totally wrong here, but I also want to push back a bit. I've seen this kind of take before, and heard it in a different form when I was struggling in my dating life. It took the form "you need to figure out {internal issue} before you start dating." And the more I read it, the more frustrated I got, because the advice seemed to boil down to "you will only be ready to date once you have committed to a buddhist monastery, meditated for 10 years straight, and achieved enlightenment. Once all desire has left your heart - including the desire to date someone - you will be ready to date."
Which is, of course, ridiculous. Overcoming your internal struggles or learning to love yourself is a process. It is a process that almost everyone is engaging in. And no one (or almost no one) really reaches the destination permanently.
Furthermore, we should recognize that overcoming your internal struggles can't happen in a vacuum - or at least it will be a lot harder that way. Like, really, what should our incel friend do with their time? Literally the exact same thing they've been doing their whole lives, except they go to therapy once per week? If that is really all they can manage, I totally support that and applaud them for putting that effort in. But realistically, that needs to be a first step that leads to further action if they ever want to see significant changes in themselves and their lives.
If they have social anxiety, to overcome it they must go out into the world and talk to people. And by actually going out and doing something with the intention of improving yourself and your life, you learn to love yourself more. In this case, you might learn that people are generally nice, and will be nice to you. You might be proud of yourself for overcoming your fears and doing something that was difficult for you. And you might love yourself more because you have experienced that you have the capacity to change and become more like the person you want to be.
Of course, if you are truly dedicated to leaving the wheel of samsara, then certainly, focus all your attention on learning to love yourself. But my personal experience is that when I improved myself, my life got better, and I became happier - even if that initial spark of wanting to improve came from feelings of inadequacy or self hatred or frustration or rage. And through the process of improving myself, I was forced to confront my inner demons in a far more visceral way that helped me overcome them. And now that I have improved myself and my life, I am in a much better place to work on my internal world and learn to love myself more.
It's okay to chase the dragon of self improvement, or of achieving worldly desires. The buddha is equally found on the meditation mat and in the snake oil in the GNC pre-workout aisle.
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Not really the point of what I am saying. I am speaking for the other person too without bias or assumptions and I am not pushing anyone to conform to some stereotype. If you're happy wearing dirty shirts, not showering, and staying at home, that is perfectly valid. You can and should just be yourself. If you feel the need to be someone else or wear any mask of assumption or conformity, you're potentially hurting someone else and offering a fake version of yourself. If you're lonely, pursue your curiosity in spaces where other people interact. Don't just go to where you might find people. You do not exist in that space; that is not you. On a subtle non obvious level, going to a space for not you reasons like this is predatory.
I am actually saying, you're allowed to be happy or content with whatever state of self awareness and intelligent engagement you push yourself to achieve. The pursuit of raw self motivated curiosity is the only way to expand self awareness from within and grow. When motivated purely from within one's self, one will eventually achieve one's true potential while being true to self.
No one deserves to partner with someone that later never showers and never leaves the house after they remove the mask of their true self.
So you see, I'm saying the same thing but with the nuance of the best interests of all parties involved. Don't tell people to conform to combat loneliness. Make an attempt to inspire their curiosity and self growth if you feel like you've spotted some inadequacy, but ultimately let them be themselves so that they are not masking to hurt someone else.
Relationships certainly can and do change people, but let those that want to change someone find their query in the true depths of the coal mine if they choose lest they unwittingly find themselves on an impossible journey to the center of the Earth.
Oh sure, I just read it as validating self-destructive habits of "incels," where they look for reasons to "justify" their victimhood. They jump to insane extremes, like saying, "I have to completely change everything about myself to get a GF/BF," but honestly all it really takes is a little bit of confidence (going to meetups you're interested in helps), practicing reasonable hygiene, and making yourself available.
No one deserves to partner with someone that later never showers and never leaves the house after they remove the mask of their true self.
Sure, but on the flip-side, finding someone you really care about does a lot to motivate you to change your habits to make sure they are comfortable being around you. The first step is finding someone you're compatible with, and that is unlikely to happen without making an effort.
Donāt tell people to conform to combat loneliness
Right, and that's not what I'm saying. Instead, I'm saying if you want a thing, there are certain expectations to get it. If you don't want companionship, that's totally fine. But if you do and you're not getting it, there are certain things you need to do to improve your chances, and whining about it online while locking yourself up in your home isn't it.
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I don't think you are totally wrong here, but I also want to push back a bit. I've seen this kind of take before, and heard it in a different form when I was struggling in my dating life. It took the form "you need to figure out {internal issue} before you start dating." And the more I read it, the more frustrated I got, because the advice seemed to boil down to "you will only be ready to date once you have committed to a buddhist monastery, meditated for 10 years straight, and achieved enlightenment. Once all desire has left your heart - including the desire to date someone - you will be ready to date."
Which is, of course, ridiculous. Overcoming your internal struggles or learning to love yourself is a process. It is a process that almost everyone is engaging in. And no one (or almost no one) really reaches the destination permanently.
Furthermore, we should recognize that overcoming your internal struggles can't happen in a vacuum - or at least it will be a lot harder that way. Like, really, what should our incel friend do with their time? Literally the exact same thing they've been doing their whole lives, except they go to therapy once per week? If that is really all they can manage, I totally support that and applaud them for putting that effort in. But realistically, that needs to be a first step that leads to further action if they ever want to see significant changes in themselves and their lives.
If they have social anxiety, to overcome it they must go out into the world and talk to people. And by actually going out and doing something with the intention of improving yourself and your life, you learn to love yourself more. In this case, you might learn that people are generally nice, and will be nice to you. You might be proud of yourself for overcoming your fears and doing something that was difficult for you. And you might love yourself more because you have experienced that you have the capacity to change and become more like the person you want to be.
Of course, if you are truly dedicated to leaving the wheel of samsara, then certainly, focus all your attention on learning to love yourself. But my personal experience is that when I improved myself, my life got better, and I became happier - even if that initial spark of wanting to improve came from feelings of inadequacy or self hatred or frustration or rage. And through the process of improving myself, I was forced to confront my inner demons in a far more visceral way that helped me overcome them. And now that I have improved myself and my life, I am in a much better place to work on my internal world and learn to love myself more.
It's okay to chase the dragon of self improvement, or of achieving worldly desires. The buddha is equally found on the meditation mat and in the snake oil in the GNC pre-workout aisle.
wrote last edited by [email protected]You're right. I probably phrased that a bit poorly, especially with respect to "do ___ before ___." The point I was trying to get across is that this push for self-improvement is often extrinsic and possibly unnecessary.
If chasing money or muscles (or whatever) is something that genuinely excites you, then by all means do that. But if you're doing it because others tell you that's what you need to find contentment, then I just want people to know there is another path.
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Oh sure, I just read it as validating self-destructive habits of "incels," where they look for reasons to "justify" their victimhood. They jump to insane extremes, like saying, "I have to completely change everything about myself to get a GF/BF," but honestly all it really takes is a little bit of confidence (going to meetups you're interested in helps), practicing reasonable hygiene, and making yourself available.
No one deserves to partner with someone that later never showers and never leaves the house after they remove the mask of their true self.
Sure, but on the flip-side, finding someone you really care about does a lot to motivate you to change your habits to make sure they are comfortable being around you. The first step is finding someone you're compatible with, and that is unlikely to happen without making an effort.
Donāt tell people to conform to combat loneliness
Right, and that's not what I'm saying. Instead, I'm saying if you want a thing, there are certain expectations to get it. If you don't want companionship, that's totally fine. But if you do and you're not getting it, there are certain things you need to do to improve your chances, and whining about it online while locking yourself up in your home isn't it.
About the insane extremes incels jump to:
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I would even say don't worry too much about self-improvement. It's a vague concept that encourages you to be perpetually dissatisfied (possibly to sell you stuff).
You can always be satisfied with who you are. Remember how Mr. Rogers likes you just the way you are? You can extend that kindness to yourself. Once you've done that, then you are in the right headspace to lose some weight or improve your income or whatever.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I like the idea of self-improvement in the sense of becoming even more yourself. I believe there is some kind of path(s) in each of us. It takes effort to recognise it ā you can say: accept it ā and even more to actually pursue it filtering out from the external noise all influences that do not fit. We all have ideas, dreams and wishes, but we have to listen carefully to hear them.
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Oh sure, I just read it as validating self-destructive habits of "incels," where they look for reasons to "justify" their victimhood. They jump to insane extremes, like saying, "I have to completely change everything about myself to get a GF/BF," but honestly all it really takes is a little bit of confidence (going to meetups you're interested in helps), practicing reasonable hygiene, and making yourself available.
No one deserves to partner with someone that later never showers and never leaves the house after they remove the mask of their true self.
Sure, but on the flip-side, finding someone you really care about does a lot to motivate you to change your habits to make sure they are comfortable being around you. The first step is finding someone you're compatible with, and that is unlikely to happen without making an effort.
Donāt tell people to conform to combat loneliness
Right, and that's not what I'm saying. Instead, I'm saying if you want a thing, there are certain expectations to get it. If you don't want companionship, that's totally fine. But if you do and you're not getting it, there are certain things you need to do to improve your chances, and whining about it online while locking yourself up in your home isn't it.
It is probably just a me thing, but I had a couple of times in my life where I was in the mindset of putting myself out there, and those were dark times. I never had good results. All of my good long term relationships came from times when I encountered someone adjacent to my other interests.
We are both likely grossly oversimplifying the spectrum of potential human experience. Like I can fake extraversion or play like other types of people than my true introverted self. If I keep my thoughts mostly to myself I become very mysterious to any potential partner because of my scope of hobbies and interests. However, I actually need someone that I can talk to openly and constructively across all of my interests, a person that has a similar scope of their own independent interests. That is something I have learned the hard way. I eventually end most long term relationships when I feel held back by what amounts to a muse. They end up limited to a chapter of my life but not a fully storied main character as I evolve.
Anyways, my point is that when I actively went looking with the purpose of meeting people, I had a terribly disappointing and depressing experience. Maybe an extrovert would have a different experience. To me, shopping for people in places where people shop will likely (stereotypically) yield a shopping type of person that will likely continue to shop or find an irresistible bargain at some point.
The best experiences I had were from those I met that were in coplanar orbits to some interest I had. What I really need has been someone motivated by slow persistent but insatiable curiosity and abstract awareness. I don't know if I ever would have found such a person in my past life, but the feeling of being held back by someone that lacks the curiosity to grow in parallel with me is untenable and empirically worse than being alone.
It doesn't matter now that I'm physically disabled with my specific limitations. I'm now content with being alone. I feel it would be unfair to force someone to watch me fall apart and die young due to the shell of who I am now after what I barely survived. This place, through the delay of typed thoughts, is the only place a simulacrum of my former self still exists through the haze of chronic sleep deprivation and pain. So I have no skin in the game, only a reflection on past life experiences free from the addiction of relationships.
