nah it's natural
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We aren't putting it off. Already many countries are deploying renewable energy like it's going out of fashion, and have been for years. China, France, the UK, Spain, and India all have significant parts of their energy coming from renewables and nuclear, or are building more as we speak. Here in England our largest source of power is wind. People are already doing stuff about it, just not fast enough or universally enough. Technology for renewables and energy saving has gotten progressively better over the past several decades. Even fossil fuel technologies like cars and natural gas plants have gotten markedly more efficient meaning they produce less CO2 than they did previously, while also emitting lower levels of other pollutants too. It's even possible now to power planes with biofuels.
wrote last edited by [email protected]power generation has come a long way but specially in the North America the story isn't as good, while we've made progress the amount of methane produced by our natural gas wells is not only frightening but difficult to track due to lack of accountability.
it's my opinion if we want the sort of radical greenhouse gas reduction required to stave off the worst of climate change then we need three things:
- an aggressive plan to phase out coal and natural gas
- embrace public transportation and bikes
- drastically reduce the amount of red meat we eat
I do believe it's possible I'm just also think it's really difficult to get political will for those sort of things.
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When covid stopped everything the noise in the oceans and cities decreased so much the animals started singing again. Dolphins returned to Venice, whales to New England harbors, the environmental impact of those years was significant. We are capable of adapting quickly and making huge impact, covid showed us that's it's just an unwillingness on the part of the ruling class. It can be done, we're just told "small, incremental change is best" (neo-lib bs enshrining short-term profits). Kill the industries, pay the people via social safety nets, federal jobs program to build better stuff, public projects, public ownership. Public money made most things but the people in power transferred all that tech and IP into private hands.
I think that's what pushed me into absolute nihilistic depression. We CAN do something and we can do it right now, but we're choosing not to.
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No, I won't give them the out. This isn't them simply being outgunned on messaging or outmaneuvered by corporate interests.
Theirs is a story of objective dereliction of duty.
Previous generations leveraged the future of their descendants to improve their wealth and economic growth. Those same generations and wealthy twats are now vying for global control as right-wing governments take power.
Yeah, there was corporate propaganda at play. That does not negate the duty of the electorate to stay informed. They could have looked into it, but they didn't because it was an inconvenient truth.
We've had strong indication that CO2 was going to fuck us since 1896 from research by Svante Arrhenius. And if you want to go waaaaayyy back, the idea that a small percentage of atmospheric gases could absorb infrared radiation was 1859 by John Tyndall. Oh, or maybe we can start the clock at 1824 when Joseph Fourier (yes that Fourier) first proposed the idea of greenhouse gases.
So after 200 fucking years of knowing about this, we've still done fuck all.
So yes. Many of our parents were willfully ignorant and didn't prioritize this issue because ... The Mexicans are coming across the border and we can't have that even if we'd really like to kick off a green energy revolution. AREGGHHHH! IF ONLY IT WEREN'T FOR THOSE DAMN ILLEGALS THEY WOULD'VE SOLVED THIS!
Previous generations leveraged the future of their descendants to improve their wealth and economic growth
Previous generations developed the industrial infrastructure that granted historic consumer surpluses (and waste), but vanishingly few of them reaped the full benefits.
This isn't a problem of generation, its a problem of economic planning (or lack there of). The post-WW2 dedication to a fossil fuel economy was a military decision more than a civilian one. Capturing and holding large sources of fossil fuel made up the bedrock of the Cold War.
Blaming this decision on Meema and Pepe is ahistorical.
We’ve had strong indication that CO2 was going to fuck us since 1896 from research by Svante Arrhenius.
We've had evidence of anthropogenic climate change, but also ample evidence of sizeable economic benefit to petroleum products - plastics and fertilizers not being the least of it.
We had the opportunity to engage in long term moderate and sustainable use, but squandered it in the name of short term consumer-driven profits.
But, again, this wasn't a decision made by a mass of proles, democratically. It was dictated from corporate boards and corrupt Congressional legislatures and Pentagon war rooms.
The knowing didn't matter, because the public was never given a real choice.
Many of our parents were willfully ignorant and didn’t prioritize this issue
Efforts to prioritize the issue was repeatedly thwarted through elaborate and labor intensive lobbying campaigns, gerrymanders, bribes, blackmail, and direct physical violence.
FFS, you had the national guard deployed to brutalize pipeline protesters just a few years ago. And that's a drop in the bucket besides the sacks and pillaging of native reservations, the toppling of foreign governments, and the endless FUD broadcast globally to defame ecologists and activists.
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I may be nitpicking here but I think people are misinterpreting the caption.
They aren't directly saying, "your parents ignored this and now we're fucked"
It's saying, "IF your parents ignored this and you found out, you'd be mad"
Implying that, "YOU should not ignore this, because what will YOUR children think of YOU?"
A lot of people are focusing on saying "uh well my parents aren't to blame" or "they wouldn't understand" but that's not the point of the message.
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Hell yeah, bring back pangea. I want dragonflies the size of baseball bats.
Not sure, but I think that wasn't because of higher temperatures but higher levels of oxygen in the atmosphere.
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our handsome investors had a free market solution but then the government said no
Some libertarian
I think in the long term there could be a libertarian solution - the Coase Theorem says that externalities can be resolved with very low transaction costs (that don't currently exist).
But that's something libertarians should've pitched 40 years ago. Now the only solution we know will help are time-tested Pigouvian taxes.
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It’s already having nasty effects already? Storms are worse and more intense, more flooding that kills people… how many people have to die before you say “that was quicker than I expected”?
wrote last edited by [email protected]How would stuff I know have happened already in a timescale I know be unexpected to me?
Shit would have to get worse at a rate beyond what's expected now for me to think it was quicker than expected.
It's like doing multiplication. 1*2 = 2. Okay makes sense. 2*2 = 4 oh damn that was quicker than expected! lol
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The responsibility of the individual to curb climate change and resource management is a con. Yes, it should be part of the shared burden; however, until the primary drivers of resource overconsumption and climate change (I. E. Corporations and mega-rich) are held to the fire, there's no point.
Like, why do people think the answers to systemic problems are through individual actions and responsibility? Like what. The most impactful change we can take as individuals is to vote, protest, and push for changes to the system.
Who the fuck cares if someone's got their heater set to 85 in the winter if the energy is coming from geothermal, solar, wind, and heat pumps?
It's not a con, people can and should still make choices and sacrifices to stop climate change while recognizing that the real problem is corporate greed.
You can recognize that litter is caused by corporations use of single use plastics for everything, while at the same time recognizing that it's your responsibility to at least dispose of them properly instead of throwing it on the street.
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Not quite right on the start of human agriculture.
Yes, let's focus on minutiae instead of the point being made!
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Not just ignored, but vehemently dismissed as “woke” quoting the fossil fuel lobby almost verbatim. Repeatedly. Over generations and overwhelming scientific consensus.
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Yes, let's focus on minutiae instead of the point being made!
106 comments on this thread. Good to know mine is so consequential that it overwhelms all of those and drives the entire discussion. Thank you.
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Imagine finding that people your own age ignored it too, like they're doing right now.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Imagine seeing this and not immediately going full Avalanche blowing up reactors n shit...
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Altman isn't sticking his head in the sand, he's delusional and selfish. He doesn't care what happens to the rest of the world after AGI.
He's also delusional if he thinks AGI is coming if you just keep pumping up LLMs.
We didn't invent the automobile by breeding faster, and faster, horses.
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Imagine seeing this and not immediately going full Avalanche blowing up reactors n shit...
Like the ffvii reference, don't like your hippie lib attitude. Downvote
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Typical copes:
"It's ONLY 4 degrees... that's not very hot! Liberals are blowing this out of proportion."
"Since 100% of climate change can't be attributed to human activity, what's the point in trying to change our behavior?"
"The spring was unusually cool... so much for global warming!"
"I'll be dead by the time this matters, so who cares?"
"I don't live by the ocean, so a rise in sea levels is nothing to worry about."
"The ice caps are actually getting LARGER! Liberals are just making all this up."
"Do you REALLY think they kept weather data back 150 years ago? Certainly that's propaganda."
I don't know why people are so against trying to do something. I'd like to think if it was scientifically proven that people had 0% to do with changing climate that we STILL should try to do something. It always made no sense to me as just to dismiss it as some kind of "natural change" in the Earth that we shouldn't oppose.
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Previous generations leveraged the future of their descendants to improve their wealth and economic growth
Previous generations developed the industrial infrastructure that granted historic consumer surpluses (and waste), but vanishingly few of them reaped the full benefits.
This isn't a problem of generation, its a problem of economic planning (or lack there of). The post-WW2 dedication to a fossil fuel economy was a military decision more than a civilian one. Capturing and holding large sources of fossil fuel made up the bedrock of the Cold War.
Blaming this decision on Meema and Pepe is ahistorical.
We’ve had strong indication that CO2 was going to fuck us since 1896 from research by Svante Arrhenius.
We've had evidence of anthropogenic climate change, but also ample evidence of sizeable economic benefit to petroleum products - plastics and fertilizers not being the least of it.
We had the opportunity to engage in long term moderate and sustainable use, but squandered it in the name of short term consumer-driven profits.
But, again, this wasn't a decision made by a mass of proles, democratically. It was dictated from corporate boards and corrupt Congressional legislatures and Pentagon war rooms.
The knowing didn't matter, because the public was never given a real choice.
Many of our parents were willfully ignorant and didn’t prioritize this issue
Efforts to prioritize the issue was repeatedly thwarted through elaborate and labor intensive lobbying campaigns, gerrymanders, bribes, blackmail, and direct physical violence.
FFS, you had the national guard deployed to brutalize pipeline protesters just a few years ago. And that's a drop in the bucket besides the sacks and pillaging of native reservations, the toppling of foreign governments, and the endless FUD broadcast globally to defame ecologists and activists.
We had the opportunity to engage in long term moderate and sustainable use, but squandered it in the name of short term consumer-driven profits.
But, again, this wasn't a decision made by a mass of proles, democratically. It was dictated from corporate boards and corrupt Congressional legislatures and Pentagon war rooms.
I think, ultimately, we agree. The main difference is I don't think "but, but, they were lied to" is an effective excuse to remove blame. In a democracy, however dysfunctional, the people share responsibility for the government the people elect.
Voter participation since the 70s is garbage. We're just now breaking the high water mark of the 60's - 65% presidential ; 50% midterm.
I am not saying it is their fault. Just that they are at fault. I'm at fault. I could have protested, but I believed too strongly that we'd get there. I never conceived we'd go backwards. I just thought if I kept voting right, we'd get there - slowly.
That is my shame and blame to carry. And I won't give others a pass for their inaction or choices.
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Have you considered that humanity does not actually have enough data to know what is and is not a "safe climate zone"?
How long, in years, did the climate take to "recover" from siberian traps eruptions? How about the dinosaur killing asteroid/deccan traps episode? What was more damaging to the environment, particulate in the air or the release of volcanic gasses?
The planet has been through multiple unimaginable apocalypses. It will survive humanity just fine. And if it doesn't? Im sure something will evolve to take our place. Terraforming is well beyond our means as a species, intentional or not.
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Have you considered that humanity does not actually have enough data to know what is and is not a "safe climate zone"?
How long, in years, did the climate take to "recover" from siberian traps eruptions? How about the dinosaur killing asteroid/deccan traps episode? What was more damaging to the environment, particulate in the air or the release of volcanic gasses?
The planet has been through multiple unimaginable apocalypses. It will survive humanity just fine. And if it doesn't? Im sure something will evolve to take our place. Terraforming is well beyond our means as a species, intentional or not.
The problem is not the planet surviving, we know it'll most likely be fine eventually. The problem is that we're causing wide-spread death and destruction, including our own.
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Our parents didn't ignore it.
Our Governments, and the corporations who bribed those governments, just didn't give a shit enough to listen.
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We had the opportunity to engage in long term moderate and sustainable use, but squandered it in the name of short term consumer-driven profits.
But, again, this wasn't a decision made by a mass of proles, democratically. It was dictated from corporate boards and corrupt Congressional legislatures and Pentagon war rooms.
I think, ultimately, we agree. The main difference is I don't think "but, but, they were lied to" is an effective excuse to remove blame. In a democracy, however dysfunctional, the people share responsibility for the government the people elect.
Voter participation since the 70s is garbage. We're just now breaking the high water mark of the 60's - 65% presidential ; 50% midterm.
I am not saying it is their fault. Just that they are at fault. I'm at fault. I could have protested, but I believed too strongly that we'd get there. I never conceived we'd go backwards. I just thought if I kept voting right, we'd get there - slowly.
That is my shame and blame to carry. And I won't give others a pass for their inaction or choices.
The main difference is I don’t think “but, but, they were lied to” is an effective excuse
If you're sighting data collected in 1894 but discounting the education and media necessary to propagate that information to the general public, I'm not sure how the information is expected to disseminate.
Yeah, people were absolutely lied to - insidiously and exhaustively. That necessarily shapes their world views.
In a democracy, however dysfunctional, the people share responsibility for the government the people elect.
Liberal democracy is barely worthy of the term. Congress has had a single digit approval rating for decades. The president regularly is underwater in public support. The parties are privately owned and operated, periodically selecting their nominees without any democratic input. Voters are systematically gerrymandered and disenfranchised. Popular candidates are smeared, removed from ballots, denied access to debates, and outright prosecuted.
What do you say to the 60-80% of the population with no material representation in government?
I’m at fault
Unless I'm talking to a CEO of an energy company or a sitting Senator, I'm not clear what you are supposed to have done differently.
The modern moment is historically overdetermined. It's hubristic to pretend you have any control over it.
