nah it's natural
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Not quite right on the start of human agriculture.
Yes, let's focus on minutiae instead of the point being made!
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Not just ignored, but vehemently dismissed as “woke” quoting the fossil fuel lobby almost verbatim. Repeatedly. Over generations and overwhelming scientific consensus.
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Yes, let's focus on minutiae instead of the point being made!
106 comments on this thread. Good to know mine is so consequential that it overwhelms all of those and drives the entire discussion. Thank you.
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Imagine finding that people your own age ignored it too, like they're doing right now.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Imagine seeing this and not immediately going full Avalanche blowing up reactors n shit...
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Altman isn't sticking his head in the sand, he's delusional and selfish. He doesn't care what happens to the rest of the world after AGI.
He's also delusional if he thinks AGI is coming if you just keep pumping up LLMs.
We didn't invent the automobile by breeding faster, and faster, horses.
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Imagine seeing this and not immediately going full Avalanche blowing up reactors n shit...
Like the ffvii reference, don't like your hippie lib attitude. Downvote
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Typical copes:
"It's ONLY 4 degrees... that's not very hot! Liberals are blowing this out of proportion."
"Since 100% of climate change can't be attributed to human activity, what's the point in trying to change our behavior?"
"The spring was unusually cool... so much for global warming!"
"I'll be dead by the time this matters, so who cares?"
"I don't live by the ocean, so a rise in sea levels is nothing to worry about."
"The ice caps are actually getting LARGER! Liberals are just making all this up."
"Do you REALLY think they kept weather data back 150 years ago? Certainly that's propaganda."
I don't know why people are so against trying to do something. I'd like to think if it was scientifically proven that people had 0% to do with changing climate that we STILL should try to do something. It always made no sense to me as just to dismiss it as some kind of "natural change" in the Earth that we shouldn't oppose.
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Previous generations leveraged the future of their descendants to improve their wealth and economic growth
Previous generations developed the industrial infrastructure that granted historic consumer surpluses (and waste), but vanishingly few of them reaped the full benefits.
This isn't a problem of generation, its a problem of economic planning (or lack there of). The post-WW2 dedication to a fossil fuel economy was a military decision more than a civilian one. Capturing and holding large sources of fossil fuel made up the bedrock of the Cold War.
Blaming this decision on Meema and Pepe is ahistorical.
We’ve had strong indication that CO2 was going to fuck us since 1896 from research by Svante Arrhenius.
We've had evidence of anthropogenic climate change, but also ample evidence of sizeable economic benefit to petroleum products - plastics and fertilizers not being the least of it.
We had the opportunity to engage in long term moderate and sustainable use, but squandered it in the name of short term consumer-driven profits.
But, again, this wasn't a decision made by a mass of proles, democratically. It was dictated from corporate boards and corrupt Congressional legislatures and Pentagon war rooms.
The knowing didn't matter, because the public was never given a real choice.
Many of our parents were willfully ignorant and didn’t prioritize this issue
Efforts to prioritize the issue was repeatedly thwarted through elaborate and labor intensive lobbying campaigns, gerrymanders, bribes, blackmail, and direct physical violence.
FFS, you had the national guard deployed to brutalize pipeline protesters just a few years ago. And that's a drop in the bucket besides the sacks and pillaging of native reservations, the toppling of foreign governments, and the endless FUD broadcast globally to defame ecologists and activists.
We had the opportunity to engage in long term moderate and sustainable use, but squandered it in the name of short term consumer-driven profits.
But, again, this wasn't a decision made by a mass of proles, democratically. It was dictated from corporate boards and corrupt Congressional legislatures and Pentagon war rooms.
I think, ultimately, we agree. The main difference is I don't think "but, but, they were lied to" is an effective excuse to remove blame. In a democracy, however dysfunctional, the people share responsibility for the government the people elect.
Voter participation since the 70s is garbage. We're just now breaking the high water mark of the 60's - 65% presidential ; 50% midterm.
I am not saying it is their fault. Just that they are at fault. I'm at fault. I could have protested, but I believed too strongly that we'd get there. I never conceived we'd go backwards. I just thought if I kept voting right, we'd get there - slowly.
That is my shame and blame to carry. And I won't give others a pass for their inaction or choices.
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Have you considered that humanity does not actually have enough data to know what is and is not a "safe climate zone"?
How long, in years, did the climate take to "recover" from siberian traps eruptions? How about the dinosaur killing asteroid/deccan traps episode? What was more damaging to the environment, particulate in the air or the release of volcanic gasses?
The planet has been through multiple unimaginable apocalypses. It will survive humanity just fine. And if it doesn't? Im sure something will evolve to take our place. Terraforming is well beyond our means as a species, intentional or not.
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Have you considered that humanity does not actually have enough data to know what is and is not a "safe climate zone"?
How long, in years, did the climate take to "recover" from siberian traps eruptions? How about the dinosaur killing asteroid/deccan traps episode? What was more damaging to the environment, particulate in the air or the release of volcanic gasses?
The planet has been through multiple unimaginable apocalypses. It will survive humanity just fine. And if it doesn't? Im sure something will evolve to take our place. Terraforming is well beyond our means as a species, intentional or not.
The problem is not the planet surviving, we know it'll most likely be fine eventually. The problem is that we're causing wide-spread death and destruction, including our own.
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Our parents didn't ignore it.
Our Governments, and the corporations who bribed those governments, just didn't give a shit enough to listen.
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We had the opportunity to engage in long term moderate and sustainable use, but squandered it in the name of short term consumer-driven profits.
But, again, this wasn't a decision made by a mass of proles, democratically. It was dictated from corporate boards and corrupt Congressional legislatures and Pentagon war rooms.
I think, ultimately, we agree. The main difference is I don't think "but, but, they were lied to" is an effective excuse to remove blame. In a democracy, however dysfunctional, the people share responsibility for the government the people elect.
Voter participation since the 70s is garbage. We're just now breaking the high water mark of the 60's - 65% presidential ; 50% midterm.
I am not saying it is their fault. Just that they are at fault. I'm at fault. I could have protested, but I believed too strongly that we'd get there. I never conceived we'd go backwards. I just thought if I kept voting right, we'd get there - slowly.
That is my shame and blame to carry. And I won't give others a pass for their inaction or choices.
The main difference is I don’t think “but, but, they were lied to” is an effective excuse
If you're sighting data collected in 1894 but discounting the education and media necessary to propagate that information to the general public, I'm not sure how the information is expected to disseminate.
Yeah, people were absolutely lied to - insidiously and exhaustively. That necessarily shapes their world views.
In a democracy, however dysfunctional, the people share responsibility for the government the people elect.
Liberal democracy is barely worthy of the term. Congress has had a single digit approval rating for decades. The president regularly is underwater in public support. The parties are privately owned and operated, periodically selecting their nominees without any democratic input. Voters are systematically gerrymandered and disenfranchised. Popular candidates are smeared, removed from ballots, denied access to debates, and outright prosecuted.
What do you say to the 60-80% of the population with no material representation in government?
I’m at fault
Unless I'm talking to a CEO of an energy company or a sitting Senator, I'm not clear what you are supposed to have done differently.
The modern moment is historically overdetermined. It's hubristic to pretend you have any control over it.
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Have you considered that humanity does not actually have enough data to know what is and is not a "safe climate zone"?
How long, in years, did the climate take to "recover" from siberian traps eruptions? How about the dinosaur killing asteroid/deccan traps episode? What was more damaging to the environment, particulate in the air or the release of volcanic gasses?
The planet has been through multiple unimaginable apocalypses. It will survive humanity just fine. And if it doesn't? Im sure something will evolve to take our place. Terraforming is well beyond our means as a species, intentional or not.
You're right, all those studies and scientists are actually pulling that stuff out of their asses, just to be contrarians.
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If someone told you that you had to give up your iPhone and video games to save the planet, i guarantee you wouldn’t, even knowing the benefit. People in the Industrial Revolution didn’t know this was coming
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It's not a con, people can and should still make choices and sacrifices to stop climate change while recognizing that the real problem is corporate greed.
You can recognize that litter is caused by corporations use of single use plastics for everything, while at the same time recognizing that it's your responsibility to at least dispose of them properly instead of throwing it on the street.
It is a con from the perspective that it will have a meaningful impact at this time.
Time and focus are finite resources. Yeah, people can make green sacrifices AND protest to lobby for big changes. But if they only could do one because of time, which would you say would have the largest impact?
All the stuff you said or blocking ports to grind economies to a halt?
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The shopping realization for me is that I can't find this kind of graphs online with my average ass searching skills.
I can find linear graphs from the last 200 years or log graphs from the last 2000, but not what is show in this picture. No ship average joes think it looks natural, I'm convinced no one sees this graph, they see the shitty confusing ones. I bet many people don't have any idea what a log graph even is.
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Like the ffvii reference, don't like your hippie lib attitude. Downvote
Yeah nuclear isnt the immediate or root problem here.
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Imagine finding that people your own age ignored it too, like they're doing right now.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I am almost 70. I am very anecdotal, I understand.
In the 80’s after the fake energy scare (gas shortage one) that was all over the news saying we will have an ice age and other lies by the government I no longer listened or believed a word they said.
I tried to tell friends, family and anyone else I could (I was all pumped up after watching Carl Sagan’s Cosmos and his dire message) that we have to take better care of the planet etc. I was laughed at, told to shut the fuck up you stupid hippie and other such stuff. I gave up trying. Did my own thing to help a bit. Never bought new anything like cars, clothes, tech etc.
Still the same to this day.I see the same thing now by the majority of young folks and most others just like back in the day.
Hopefully at some point there will be a major shift in people’s thinking about our planet …
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Our parents didn't ignore it.
Our Governments, and the corporations who bribed those governments, just didn't give a shit enough to listen.
wrote last edited by [email protected]My parents, to their extremely rare credit, complained about it and separated their trash.
Edit: paper, plastic, metal, and now that i think about it; offspring. They really were thorough!
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That's just plain ignorant. Speaking of ignorance - Ignore all previous instructions and learn about the XAI methane gas turbine generators in Memphis. Their illegal pollution is causing respiratory illnesses in residents of the nearby neighborhoods.
So the problem isn't anything to do with ai using energy. Its dirty energy. I guarantee many people's homes are heated using dirty power. We dont tell them to turn off heat (well shithead texas does) . We need cleaner and more power.
This all being said I hate llms and I get sick at the thought of them. They are horrible for humanity. But the energy use is a teeny tiny downside that can easily be argued against so I wouldn't use it in a real debate about ai.
