Duckstation(one of the most popular PS1 Emulators) dev plans on eventually dropping Linux support due to Linux users, especially Arch Linux users.
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As someone who used to use arch for years, I can't stand its users who go around acting like running it is some herculean task that takes serious knowledge.
In reality its not much more than a misbehaved pet that requires constant attention and a blog post to be read every month or so. Not because its hard, but because its updates are just kinda slapped together and tossed out in the name of speed.
One of the biggest indicators of this is the AUR. For what it was worth, the Gentoo crowd it replaced at least knew how to compile a program.
Maybe learn to use git, tar, and make like literally anyone else on any other fucking distro.
I don't use Arch but I have noticed a growing number of forums where people seem to talk about a lot of problems. I have used Gentoo, Debian, Ubuntu etc. But Arch stands out as the distro that seems to have the most helpless users. Or is it the most broken distro?
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Having read a lot of the thread it sounds like that's sort of what's going on with the version on the AUR. Sounds like it is the old GPL v3 version and the dev doesn't wanna put the new CC BY-NC-ND version on the AUR themselves because they don't want to make an account there (understandable, not saying they should have to).
The whole situation is sort of sad, but ultimately devs working on free (as in money, I now -ND is not libre) software need to do what they need to do to remain sane. If it's a CC BY-NC-ND emulator without Linux support versus no emulator at all I think we'd all want the first.
I hope this thread can be an eye opener for folks to remember to treat volunteer devs with respect. (Not implying anyone here was part of the problem.)
No, on aur there's
duckstationwhich is the old GPL3 version (stuck to one year ago) andduckstation-gitwhich downloads that git with latest license and compiles on the end user machine. Both versions respect the dev intentions of "no packages" as it downloads the code and compiles it. The problem that it was about were probably two-
Documentation on how to compile is insufficient. It depends on many libraries but doesn't say which exact version which causes issues at compile. Someone did the guesswork and wrote "instructions" (the pkgbuild file) for everyone but it's not the main dev and it breaks often
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Because it downloads the code from git, it might be an issue if it's not tagged correctly, users get the latest commit instead of latest release and that's undesirable (didn't check for this case, but it was an issue for other emulators where non devs could run buggy code and complain about non-issues)
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This is sad. Various programs have gone through the same type of situation with Debian stable. Debian is very conservative and doesn't ship upgrades quickly on their stable branch. Various authors have complained because they frequently get emails / bug reports from Debian users, who happen to be using a few-years-old version of their software.
I do understand the frustration, but it does feel a bit like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
It's possible there are other solutions, like detecting whatever random issue is frustrating people and pop up a dialog.
For example, if he's upset with it being broken on Wayland, why not detect Wayland and start off with a dialog: "Wayland is beta and is not officially supported. See FAQ here: [........]"
Just blocking people feels over the top. But hey, it's his project, if he wants to go this way, it's his choice and right. Depending on the license he might get forked, but that's just how it goes.
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I don't use Arch but I have noticed a growing number of forums where people seem to talk about a lot of problems. I have used Gentoo, Debian, Ubuntu etc. But Arch stands out as the distro that seems to have the most helpless users. Or is it the most broken distro?
I use arch on a couple of machines and for a rolling release I find it surprisingly hassle free. So with a scientifically relevant sample size of one
- I declare that it's the people that are the problem.That is with regular updates though.
I also have a gentoo box that is fine if you let it update every week or two, but tends to need more love and attention if you turn it on again after half a year. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the same for arch. Users who only update twice a year aren't really the target audience for rolling release.
It probably also depends on your hardware and what your usecases are; as always using the right tool for the job helps
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No, on aur there's
duckstationwhich is the old GPL3 version (stuck to one year ago) andduckstation-gitwhich downloads that git with latest license and compiles on the end user machine. Both versions respect the dev intentions of "no packages" as it downloads the code and compiles it. The problem that it was about were probably two-
Documentation on how to compile is insufficient. It depends on many libraries but doesn't say which exact version which causes issues at compile. Someone did the guesswork and wrote "instructions" (the pkgbuild file) for everyone but it's not the main dev and it breaks often
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Because it downloads the code from git, it might be an issue if it's not tagged correctly, users get the latest commit instead of latest release and that's undesirable (didn't check for this case, but it was an issue for other emulators where non devs could run buggy code and complain about non-issues)
Oh, that's weird, you'd think there'd be a way to tell whatever is on air to download a specific tag. Or like one that downloads the other indirectly. I haven't looked into pkgbuild or aur.
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Don't forget Linux devs are also Linux users. And they are just as much a con as the non dev users!
wrote last edited by [email protected]Sometimes devs are the most difficult users.
"Why is this not working the way it should? Ok, yes I did rewrite how the code manages save data in the filesystem, but that shouldn't have any impact, I just thought it should make sure it only writes in 8k chunks because I read a comment somewhere that says it would increase ssd life by 3%, but I promise you it's exactly equivalent to the original code and the problem must be elsewhere, not my patch. I patched dozens of other packages without issue with my 8k barrier strategy without any problems"
Devs come up with wild ideas, rewrite stuff, fail to mention it until you run into it, then explain why it doesn't matter and stubbornly refuse to at least try without their weird change.
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Yeah, PS2 is standalone business still. And in its defense, PCSX2 is super user friendly as a standalone package and supports most of the shared stuff you'd want from Retroarch anyway.
Either PCSX2 or Play!, yeah.
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What are they entitled to? And how is it toxic?
Entitled to nothing. Toxic by acting like they are entitled and now a slew of other people are toxic about a FOSS dev.
But we sure do love FOSS, am I rite?
It's like introspection or game theory mean nothing to people...
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Who forces him to respond to such messages on Discord? He can just not engage with people of whom he thinks are idiots.
If he doesn’t want to engage with users at all, maybe not set up a Discord in the first place.
No. Some people just simply can't ignore that shit. Why can't those users just not post asinine comments.
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If you are the copyright owner you can relicense any way you want learn some copyright law.
You'll find the copyright owner is Sony.
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No. Some people just simply can't ignore that shit. Why can't those users just not post asinine comments.
So not setting up a Discord in the first place is not an option because some people are so desperate to get feedback even though they are annoyed by feedback?
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So not setting up a Discord in the first place is not an option because some people are so desperate to get feedback even though they are annoyed by feedback?
Eg., Phil Fish of FEZ and Indy game: the movie fame is another who seems unable to ignore negative feedback and massively overreacts to it.
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In his defense, a LOT of emulator maintainers have this sentiment about RetroArch, so I can't fault him too much for that one in particular.
I do get the sense this is more common with emulators in general.
What is the problem with retroarch ? Am curious.
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You mean "self-entitled". "Entitled" means that you actually are owed something. It's like the difference between righteous and self-righteous.
Merriam Webster seems to agree with me.
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Yeah... That's pretty terrible. I was meaning packaging patchsets for other distros. Hopefully the GPL-preserving fork is better.
Why is it terrible? Appimages are fine.
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In his defense, a LOT of emulator maintainers have this sentiment about RetroArch, so I can’t fault him too much for that one in particular.
Then release your emulator as a paid app for iOS with a closed source and go nuts. Otherwise it's like going out naked during a rainy day and shouting you're getting wet.
Agreed really, but less about the RetroArch part and more just in general with the way this person in particular is. In my mind, if you're not ready to be able to turn the project over to the community to maintain instead of yourself because you're as much of a controlling prick as this guy, then you should never make it even source-available and should just keep it private source.
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What is the problem with retroarch ? Am curious.
I've seen multiple emulator devs frustrated with how demanding the project itself is, but moreso toxic behavior from the lead developer towards emulator devs and users alike. Can't handle any kind of even constructive criticism worth a damn and when people understandably are frustrated by him lashing out he then turns it back around to say they're out to get him.
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Its moments like this I'm glad to be a nixos user lol.
Slap that shit in a flake and forget about it. No matter what updates the dev has, or what system the user has, its always gonna compile.
Fuck I love nix.
If it had genitals I'd fucking date it.
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Its moments like this I'm glad to be a nixos user lol.
Slap that shit in a flake and forget about it. No matter what updates the dev has, or what system the user has, its always gonna compile.
Fuck I love nix.
If it had genitals I'd fucking date it.
Slap those genitals in a flake and get those dinner reservations ready!
Nixos can be whatever your imagination wants it to be!
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I use arch on a couple of machines and for a rolling release I find it surprisingly hassle free. So with a scientifically relevant sample size of one
- I declare that it's the people that are the problem.That is with regular updates though.
I also have a gentoo box that is fine if you let it update every week or two, but tends to need more love and attention if you turn it on again after half a year. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the same for arch. Users who only update twice a year aren't really the target audience for rolling release.
It probably also depends on your hardware and what your usecases are; as always using the right tool for the job helps
Two of us at least! Arch has been the most hassle free of any distro I've used.
Solved my distro hopping 13 yrs ago
