The seven programming ur-languages

[onlinepersona@programming.dev]

This article could've been: learn the different paradigms, here are my favorite languages that follow the paradigm. Done.

Anti Commercial-AI license

[corbin@programming.dev]

INTERCAL is an ALGOL descendant. A holistic timeline of esoteric languages shows that esoteric languages don't form a family; however, there are several families not mentioned in the article, notably cellular automata and string/wire diagrams.

[corbin@programming.dev]

Self's descendants are not well-understood in our popular culture. The two most popular (Turing-complete) languages, ECMAScript and Python, are both Self grandchildren, and Java is also a child of Self; yet, the article's author incorrectly believes them to be ALGOL descendants because of surface syntax as well as the Java/ECMAScript focus on performance. Note also that the author doesn't mention E (WP, esolangs), which is akin to Erlang in making message-passing explicit but descends from Self, unlike Erlang which descends from Prolog. (I will give them partial credit for noting that Smalltalk is an ancestor of Java.)

So, the exemplar should be a message-passing everything-is-an-object language designed for JIT with no Prolog influence. The earliest such language in the family tree is Self!

[fades@lemmy.world]

Honest question, do you believe that your anti-ai license has any measurable impact?

[onlinepersona@programming.dev]

Let me rephrase your question: does individual action have impact on the whole?

With that kind of thinking, nobody should do anything ever. No need to vote because your will as a single voter doesn't matter. No need to stop eating meat because most others won't. No need to try to reduce energy consumption because most others won't. No need to boycott a product because most others won't.

So, honest question back: is that really how you want to think?

Anti Commercial-AI license

[syklemil@discuss.tchncs.de]

Smells a bit Scandinavian to me. In Norwegian we also use "ur" that way, including "urspråk" (Ursprache, ur-language). We have a different word for origin (opphav), so ur remains a prefix that's difficult for us to translate.

Going by Wikipedia however, the English translation for Norwegian urspråk and German Ursprache is proto-language.

[bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.works]

Using licenses to take a political stance is a valid idea. It’s even worthwhile, if there’s little uptake for it. Signaling opposition even if it’s symbolic only, has some value.

An aggressively scraping AI company could easily ignore it and it would be hard to prove a violation.

[bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.works]

Ur is used in German a lot to signify something being ancient or the origin.

Großvater means grandfather. Urgroßvater means great-grandfather.

Ursuppe - Primordial soup

Urknall - Big Bang

Ursprung - Origin

English uses it as a loan word and prefix.

[cafuneandchill@lemmy.world]

1. ur mom lmao
2. Uruk-hai
3. Urethra
4. Urdu language
5. Ursa Major
6. Ursa Minor
7. Uranus

[senkora@lemmy.zip]

Yes, but it’s a prefix and can’t be used as a word on its own.

I am a native English speaker and I know it. It’s rare though.

Same meaning as in German and apparently we borrowed it from German.

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/ur-

[corbin@programming.dev]

Open your mind a little; collective action has an impact but individual action may not. Paraphrasing Cloud Atlas, certainly an ocean is nothing more than a vast collection of raindrops, but each individual raindrop collectively acts as a body of water. This dissolves your false dilemma.

[onlinepersona@programming.dev]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were responding to another comment, because in response to mind it doesn't make any sense...

Anti Commercial-AI license

[bleistift2@sopuli.xyz]

One of the Ursas could have been The Game of Ur

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Game_of_Ur

[tyler@programming.dev]

Not sure about a lot of these different languages, but Ruby claims to have taken many many many of its features from smalltalk, so the article is quite strange in that regard too.

[tomasekeli@programming.dev]

forgot Ur-Quan

[cafuneandchill@lemmy.world]

I like how you think, fellow lemming

[rogue@feddit.uk]

tl;dr

When an enthusiastic novice asks what language to learn you should pretentiously tell them it doesn't matter because the majority in use today are similar and trace their roots to the same source.

For pretentious reasons we'll define that source as an *ur-*language because that's a defined prefix that nobody uses in reality so it's a great way to assert I'm more cleverer than you.

Now, here's a long rambling lesson on other ur-languages that nobody uses because they're overly complex but because I'm so much cleverer I clearly know them all.

To conclude I've ignored your original question but don't worry, here's a link to the programming course I sell.

Once you've completed your first you shouldn't bother putting it into practice but instead every year try a language completely unrelated to the first so it's extra difficult. Just ignore the fact it's guaranteed to be a dead language nobody uses in reality. it's more important to be different than have practical skills.