The great millennial garbage gyre
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Perhaps, but we would need to put the idea in practice to determine what's the cause/effect relationship here.
Are people more addicted to their screens because the real world became hostile, or is the real world becoming hostile because people are glued to their screens?
I'd bet on the first option, but I could be wrong.
Real relationships require a vulnerability that dating apps can not provide
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Sorry if I come off like a butthole but I'm both curious yet dubious of the idea. I feel like people probably have thought about it but they probably ran into the same problems you'll run into.
You didn't quite answer my question. Where are you getting revenue? Eg. Subscription, one-time fees for X, grants, investments, etc?
Duallingo started like a non-profit but even their revenue with its massive userbase couldn't cover their expenses so they had to compromise hard to keep the lights on. The same happened to Coffee Meets Bagel. Hinge started with the same premise of "this app is meant to be deleted" but they also had to compromise and eventually sold to Match Group.
Also, I feel like gay men are a unique demographic that has higher that average engagement so Grindr is probably in a uniquely advantaged position to resist enshitification.
I guess I'm just saying it's probably in practice a cost center like city infrastructure or schools or research, so it might only work without heavy compromises if it's also funded by taxes.
It’s almost as if men are a little bit hornier than women…
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I tried bumble and hinge, got the ick, and gave up. Yeah, I’ve heard people saying something similar; going on about women looking to be housed. It’s such a huge turnoff and it makes me consider their financial insecurity, to be honest.
Most people seem to accept living on debt or handouts. It's strange. I see everyone around me (both sexes) acting the same. So it's not even a dating app issue, I think it's a people issue. Offer nothing and expect everything in return. Maybe it's an American thing?
I don't want to be grouped into incel mentality, but is there a dating app to meet people from another country?
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Sorry if I come off like a butthole but I'm both curious yet dubious of the idea. I feel like people probably have thought about it but they probably ran into the same problems you'll run into.
You didn't quite answer my question. Where are you getting revenue? Eg. Subscription, one-time fees for X, grants, investments, etc?
Duallingo started like a non-profit but even their revenue with its massive userbase couldn't cover their expenses so they had to compromise hard to keep the lights on. The same happened to Coffee Meets Bagel. Hinge started with the same premise of "this app is meant to be deleted" but they also had to compromise and eventually sold to Match Group.
Also, I feel like gay men are a unique demographic that has higher that average engagement so Grindr is probably in a uniquely advantaged position to resist enshitification.
I guess I'm just saying it's probably in practice a cost center like city infrastructure or schools or research, so it might only work without heavy compromises if it's also funded by taxes.
Where are we getting the funds for Lemmy and its instances?
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I think we should make dating apps even worse, and just let humanity die out naturally.
Schopenhauer did say as much I suppose. Except for the Tinder bit. Now to pin him as a millennial or a Gen Z...
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Most people seem to accept living on debt or handouts. It's strange. I see everyone around me (both sexes) acting the same. So it's not even a dating app issue, I think it's a people issue. Offer nothing and expect everything in return. Maybe it's an American thing?
I don't want to be grouped into incel mentality, but is there a dating app to meet people from another country?
I don’t know, it could be your immediate environment. I certainly noticed this behavior in some friend groups, but not others. I don’t think you need to go that far to avoid the behavior. Just be vigilant and expect reciprocity.
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My husband is 38, we're eachothers best friend. Feeling alone even in company is a sign of depression, which we both have, and both have had, since we were children.
I'm glad to be there for him on his off days, and he's there for me in mine. That's what it's about no? He doesn't see me as a "dick servicer" though, so maybe that's the difference.
I'm sorry you so feel alone no matter what though, must be difficult getting through some days
I don't believe you. I do not believe a woman is there for a man in his off days. I've never seen that. Women do not support men, supporting a man is misogyny. They go on social media claiming to be "strong and independent" always in that order, and demanding heights and salaries that they will begrudgingly fuck for. "You take me on enough expensive dates and I might stoop to fucking you."
That's what the modern online-only strangers-only dating scene looks like. You will be alone with or without these women.
Look up "spool of wire guy."
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High school here runs through grade 12, and is part of primary education. It's publicly funded. The only costs to students are for clubs and sports, and for school-provided lunch (which is excepted if your family is below a certain income). Most students graduate the same year they turn 18, so higher education (college or university) considerations only apply to adults.
There are heavy restrictions on pre-18 employment because of school. Limited hours per week, and evening cutoffs to ensure teens still have time for family/homework/etc.
Some schools (maybe all? I can only speak to my own experience) allow work release to grades 11 and 12, provided you're ahead enough on required credits and coursework for this to not set you back. Basically, you can trade elective classes for early release, but you must prove employment.
Thank you for the detailed answer. I guess I had some misconceptions about high school then.
Mh that's not true about the 18 year age for work here, I have to say in retrospect. In my youth it was still common to distribute brochures etc. at the weekend around the age of ~14, mh internships still exist, but this is unpaid work, at ~16 years then an apprenticeship and from 18 years then in regular work (or depending on further university).
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I think we should make dating apps even worse, and just let humanity die out naturally.
I don't know how you would go about intentionally making them worse. In theory they have a premium mode but in practise the premium mode is the "function at all" mode.
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If the company has a goal to make more money every year, then you can justify a lot of actions in that pursuit. And once they have a monopoly you kinda don't have many options, so they can push more.
Saying they have a responsibility to keep you on the app may sound silly, but app user churn is most likely measured and has some goal around it. And if a goal is set around that churn then they very much have an obligation to keep you on there as long as possible.
There's the alternative of trying to obtain more users, or also to retain users by being a better service (although it has to appeal to a different demographic than those trying to leave for this though).
They have a pretty universally bad name now, so obtaining new users only gets harder, and a lot of people leave even without finding a long term match because the service is shit. They can optimize for these factors without burning the place down.
They have no requirement to grow year over year either. That has nothing to do with fiduciary responsibility. It just keeps stock value growing. Prioritizing long term health at the expense of short term gains is perfectly fine a legal.
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Humans simply are not wired for social media and the Internet. Seeing every single person you know posting themselves beautiful and dressed up doing the coolest things 24/7 will make anyone feel ugly and like they aren’t doing anything with their lives. It takes real focused effort to remember that people (generally) only post when they are doing something special and what you don’t see are the days or weeks between posts that show they live the same boring life you live.
I've never seen a friend post on social media about something and then felt sad. I've instead thought "That looks awesome! Good for them! I can't wait to do something like that too, I'm inspired!"
I think when we lost in person social gatherings as the primary method of meeting new people
This is something only chronically online people say. Most people form almost all of their relationships offline. This is still extremely true of platonic relationships. Online dating has increased in popularity, but mostly this is among people with niche tastes or in remote locations, where finding a match is more difficult due to the rarity of finding potential partners in real life. Tons of people still date primarily via their social circle or community gatherings, and most people use a mix of all their options.
if you are presenting yourself to the world at large would you not want to showcase your best self?
"no let me show myself in my skivvies talking to my therapist!" doesn't seem like a lure for attracting a partner. just my two cents. And I am of the opinion that online dating is awkward, but that is about it.
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What the fuck is a 17 year old doing at a job?
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I’ve been curious if a government-run dating app could do better - if its goal is to achieve genuine engagement, not cycles of frustration that boost subscription rates.
This is one of many subjects where capitalist concern ruins the product (and that’s not even something I say as often as others on Lenny)
National Lampoon had an article once called 'Girls of the Soviet Block'. When you said government run dating app, it made me think how hilarious that turned out.
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I am forklift certified. I do not need this.
I'd hate to be the one to say this, but that's not what people mean by "picking up girls."
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What the fuck is a 17 year old doing at a job?
at my old job the youngest employees were like 15. not too uncommon in some parts of America
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Looking for an anticapitalist on lemmy is like looking for a lesbian at a Teagan and Sara concert. It's not everybody, but it's not a difficult search
meh, I dont think thats accurate. I would say "opportunist" is a better fit. Anticapitalists understand how profit extractions works and have a very different view on society. Mostly one that does not work on .world because of the capitalist propaganda machine running in the west.
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Yeah it's not about "ownership", it's a partnership. You can't rely on someone that's also trying to maintain romantic relationships with other people as well.
You can rely on someone in a non mono relationship, it's just way more complicated and takes 1000% more time. It's all just choices. But there's plenty of examples of deep relationships that are also non monogamous
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at my old job the youngest employees were like 15. not too uncommon in some parts of America
Shouldn't it be uncommon? Or better yet, non existing?
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I'm referring to these particular women, not women as a whole.
There's a type of woman who are essentially asexual, never masturbates, says they don't really need sex, but still wants to be in a heterosexual relationship from either societal expectations or because they think a boyfriend is useful in other aspects of their life.
And there are some dudes who only want sex and aren't willing to put any work into building an actual relationship outside the bedroom. My point being is that there are lots of different attitudes out there, but the vast majority of people are just normal people wanting healthy relationships.
I think social media has really segregated people from reality and has warped people's interpretation of others. It feels as if everyone believes they are the last "normal" person in society and everyone else is just intrinsically antagonistic.
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I don't believe you. I do not believe a woman is there for a man in his off days. I've never seen that. Women do not support men, supporting a man is misogyny. They go on social media claiming to be "strong and independent" always in that order, and demanding heights and salaries that they will begrudgingly fuck for. "You take me on enough expensive dates and I might stoop to fucking you."
That's what the modern online-only strangers-only dating scene looks like. You will be alone with or without these women.
Look up "spool of wire guy."
wrote last edited by [email protected]Our first date was a walk in the park because we couldn't decide. We walked for hours. I felt safe enough to even go back to his spot after where we smoked cannabis and talked still, for many more hours. Our first date was like 6 hours long and cost nothing but a bit of gas for the drive.
The spool of wire guy, is that the fella who's sitting outside reminiscing when he first bought that giant spool of wire and now it was gone? A very sweet, sentimental moment for thst guy.
Not gonna lie, some women are like that I've heard. I've never been friends with those types. Shallow people gonna shallow. Before I met my husband, most commonly my first dates were usually bar dates, where I would pay my own drink, or be turned down when I went to pay for it. I'll insist to pay, but if they insist again to pay, I'd let them, and in response to a free drink, I'd tip the server that extra instead. That was my personal code.
Of course, dating online from me started 15 years ago, and ended 7 years ago when I met my love. What's it like today? I don't know. If I didn't have my husband I know I wouldn't go back to an app today everything humans touch has been heavily monetized, if even before it was only lightly monetized. I always used Plenty of Fish, idk if that matters.
It's not good to generalize men, nor is is good to generalize women. You end up boxing yourself in. Better to treat each person you meet with no expectations, and you'll never be disappointed. I've had some guys I've dated do really shitty things. There are guys who are willing to talk to you everyday for six weeks, spend two weeks more to hit the three date marker, sleep together, and then- they ghost. Some men will put two months of effort in to get laid, then ghost. It hurts a lot, especially when you think you have connection.
I never let it make me resentful towards all men, because I've also dated total sweethearts, they're out there. I found one. Im lucky.
Keep hope, and maybe you will too. I truly believe I was able to score such a baddie (who btw at the time had the same income as I did) because for the year and a half leading up to him I did a lot of self work. Not working out, but addressing my flaws, my judgements, my quick temper. Stress management was what I needed most. Just at the moment I felt nearly whole as a single, I met my husband.
I serve him coffee in the morning, not because he expects it, in fact if I ask, he'll say "no I'm going to get up in a second", so I don't ask, I just bring him one. I do it because for one, I like doing acts of service, it's self serving as it makes me feel like im being helpful, and in return I feel good. It's totally selfish first because "he'll think I'm sweet and appreciate it if I do this for him". The "aw babes you didn't have to" gives me dopamine like nothing else. He always denies my help, so I deny asking and just find ways I can. It doesn't go unappreciated, he is always greatful, and if I bring him coffee four days in a row, and on the fifth day don't, he doesn't even mention it, he'll get up, kiss me and ask if I want Dunkin. He supports himself without complaint, and is always appreciative. My doing kind things is "extra" for him, and I feel the same. (Lol edit: I could absolutely describe my husband and strong and independent)
I've dated men who you bring coffee for four days, and not on the fifth, they've now expected my service, and complain. Some will even poke, "why didn't you bring me coffee today? Are you mad? Did I do something?" And it would turn to a fight. Those men, are not the type I entertain much longer. As soon as I don't feel appreciated and like I've expectations not my own, placed on me by someone else, I am out.
But second, my husband deserves it. Because whether I look good or like shit, whether I bust ass and handle business, or I lay on the couch frozen depressed, he still loves me the same. He's earned my service over and over and over again, just by being a kind and helpful human to me over the years. So I return the kindness with more.
And to be honest, I don't always know how to support him on depressed days. I don't think he knows what to do for me either, but we both respond to each other's moments with thst kindness. I'll make a special dessert for him, or run an errand he doesn't want to run that day. I make myself available if he wants to talk, He does similar for me. I annoy him sometimes with "is there anything I can do for you to help?" But I still ask, and give him love when he says no or idk. Sometimes what he needs is space, (hey me too) and we do that for eachother.
Give kindness and you get it back. It's so silly but it's how I've lived. It hasn't shielded me from pain, but it sure does make more opportunity for kind moments in life. If you're looking for a fight, you will find one. If your looking to spread kindness, you'll find that returned too.
Best of luck out there, I know it's tough. I hope you find someone, even if it's a dog or a friend or a life partner, that shows you the kindness your heart needs.
Edit: it's so corny, and I doubt you'll watch it. But as a teenager I watched the movie "Under the Tuscan Sun". Its a cheesy film, but with a really sweet message.
The woman is looking for love, and finds it, but not in the way she expected, it's very sweet and I think helped me personally, in those formative years to drop expectations or at least, allow room for them to adjust. If you're feeling lonely, no one will know you watched an old chick movie, and it might help you feel better to look at love differently as the woman is faced to in the movie. No one has to know you watched it lol
