Why does philosophy education make people uncomfortable?
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For a layperson, philosophy doesn’t have an obvious practical application. They think philosophers just sit around pondering esoteric topics and can’t imagine why anyone would pay them for it.
I like the philosophy but I also don't understand why anyone could pay for it. IG, It's like chess, only top players & teachers earn money from it.
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I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I think, because people think it's a useless degree, because there is no industry or marketable jobs not phil that's not from a university. Much like BA in psych or some Studies degree. There really isn't jobs outside of academia for phil. I was in a philosophy course in college like 10+ years, a instructor recently finished his PhD, and seems to love it. But he has no permanent position, so he jumps from college to college teaching it, I was following his LinkedIn profile. On the other side, its probably propaganda against philosophy as too much on one side of the political spectrum, right wingers scoff and it quite a lot. Also it includes religions as part of the studies, so people find it very uncomfortable that it contradicts their religious beliefs
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I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
Because we hit peak philosophy with diogenes. Everything else is just tedious...
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I like the philosophy but I also don't understand why anyone could pay for it. IG, It's like chess, only top players & teachers earn money from it.
It's not about the content, but rather the skills gained when becoming an expert on the content. For example, physics degrees are often sought after in the financial realm because of they're expert ability to model things with mathematics.
Philosophers are generally expert thinkers, writers, and debaters. Not a lot of jobs are hiring philosophers for their content knowledge, but instead, they're hired for their skills.
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I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
Its because most of them don't really know what philosophy is, so someone being a master of it makes them feel very insecure - like they're cornered with a topic they know nothing about.
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Older people however, were generally more disparaging and would openly scoff with “why would we need philosophy!” often followed by “[Science | religion | real life] tells us everything we need to know” depending on their particuar worldview.
Philosophy is just psychology. Psychology is just biology. Biology is just chemistry. Chemisty is just physics. Physics is just math. Math, though, math is just philosophy. Fun joke, but like many such jokes, there's an element of truth there. While I have met some philosophy majors who find the exploration of logic so compelling that they forget to consider the humanity of their first principals, I deeply respect that Philosophy is ultimately the underpinning of how humans think about the universe in any meaningful way.
Manditory Epistemology mention. (jk)
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For a layperson, philosophy doesn’t have an obvious practical application. They think philosophers just sit around pondering esoteric topics and can’t imagine why anyone would pay them for it.
philosophers just sit around pondering esoteric topics
CEO material?
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I've known 3 philosophy majors that I know of.
One had a PhD and was absolutely insufferable. We were coworkers, and he'd often say falsehoods to try to be funny. Like, "Did you write that documentation I asked for?", and he'd say like "I spent all morning writing it as a series of haikus". I'm like, my guy, just answer the question. I'd ask him to stop being sarcastic so often in professional contexts and he'd be like "I'm not being sarcastic I'm being ironic." You knew what I meant, Ryan!
He would also use language to say things that were tEcHnIcAlLy true. Like, "I finished that task (or 1 equals 1)", except he had more subtle ones.
Was it because he was a philosophy PhD? Probably not. Some of his annoying habits he tied back to philosophy stuff, but he was probably just an asshole. But that's who I think of (other than chidi)
The other one I knew was fine in a messy nihilist rich kid way. Fun at parties. Can't be friends.
And the last one is one of the nicest people I've ever met. Just thoughtful and patient and a really positive person.
wrote last edited by [email protected][edited out useless words]
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I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
I'll be real with you: philosophy seems like a bougie thing to major in.
It's something you major in when you have a cushion that allows it.
Most people don't have that cushion, so they get mad when they see someone who does use it.
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"The arts are useless and will make you a poor stupid leftist... Do a trade" <----- type of statemet that has been doing the rounds on the far-right since at least 2014.
Not just the far right. Also was a staple in the new-atheist movement, their conviction was that science had solved all big dillemas already. Just a few minor details to work out. And they have been far more influential.
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I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
Philosophers are always the first targets of anti-intellectuals. People genuinely believe that studding what's true about the world is a waste of time.
You can tell that this is a prejudice because the same people who think you shouldn't get paid for having useless knowledge will still hire economists.
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Not just the far right. Also was a staple in the new-atheist movement, their conviction was that science had solved all big dillemas already. Just a few minor details to work out. And they have been far more influential.
Yeah their offense about Atheism Plus really does seem to mirror later movements in gamergate and the far right in general.
Haven't looked at that before. Thanks.
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Here is a quote, taken slightly out of context, that I believe speaks to what you are experiencing:
"The clinical picture of a person who has been reduced to elemental concerns of survival is still frequently mistaken for a portrait of the survivor's underlying character." - World Health Organization. (May 31, 2016). ICD-11 Beta Draft (Joint Linearization for Mortality and Morbidity Statistics).
Extrapolating from that in this other context, we can assume more and more people are simply losing their capacity to entertain "loftier" ideals than immediate survival. For all too many, there was never any other choice.
I studied philosophy at university in the 80's, and remember the endless jokes about what restaurant job I would be able to get with my degree, etc. It speaks to the hidden framework of capitalism that confines us all. It's only gotten worse in my lifetime.
I look back at my parents, who were able to buy their own house and raise two kids with a single earner, blue collar wage. My mom did eventually work as well, which allowed us children to go to college.
Now I am close to retirement, and I have nothing to show for it. No house, no car, no big retirement payout waiting. I 'squandered' my money and time being an activist and humanitarian, living in the moment and refusing to produce or hoard wealth for the capitalist machine just because.
I try to use my philosophical insight as a practical methodology to remove myself from the clamor for crumbs. I am a minimalist, an environmentalist, a gardener, a handyman and helper, a teacher - a papa smurf to my community and philosopher to my peers. I wouldn't trade it for all the money in the world, but I would be remiss to ignore the looming economic circumstances that threaten the future of humanity, myself included.
But I will forge ahead into this wilderness. As Deleuze and Guattari would say, forget reading someone else's map, become your own cartographer. Philosophy is a great basis for profound understanding of the human condition. It won't make you rich, and it certainly won't be respected or understood in this modern world - but it will enrich you. If you follow your heart it can show you a path through the madness that does not require that you shed your humanity or reduce yourself to that of an economic survivor, victor, or victim, and can serve as a beacon for others less fortunate to have been afforded such a perspective.
I often share the story of Taigu Ryōkan, the Zen Master, who perfectly illustrates both the value of philosophical introspection, and it's liberating effect from the confines of the material world.
https://laspina.org/the-thief-and-the-moon-a-zen-tale-in-ryokans-haiku/
Now I am close to retirement, and I have nothing to show for it. No house, no car, no big retirement payout waiting. I 'squandered' my money and time being an activist and humanitarian, living in the moment and refusing to produce or hoard wealth for the capitalist machine just because.
You say this and still dont get it. You built no future other than dependency and think its nobel. You yelled at some people, bought a few less items, maybe planted a tree, and set yourself up to be a burden on everyone around you and think thats noteworthy.
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I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
Because religious people are raised with a flawed worldview that they can't waver from or they're going to hell and also made to feel extremely shameful about regular human emotions like curiosity and horniness
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The only philosophy related jobs are in academia?
wrote last edited by [email protected]Close to, to the point where it's actually just yes. Would you ever consider paying good money for a philosopher, if you were presented with a practical problem? Or, would you hire an engineer, doctor, plumber...
If you're hiring a philosopher for a non-specific or non-practical thing, you're actually writing a research grant more than anything, and that would be counted as academia.
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I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
There's a philosopher/history of philos on the bowling team I've just joined. I'm philospically inclined so I asked him if Descartes was ripping off Socrates' "I only know that I know nothing" which could be interpreted as "I doubt everything except my existence". It's a topic that came up the other day on Lemmy. He said no, Socrates was just saying he was wiser than everyone else because he wasn't deluded about his abilities.
I asked him about Descartes' relationship to solipsism reply: Descartes wasn't a solipsist because his god wouldn't deceive him like that, Descartes' god is real because of the ontological argument. Which one's that again?...
I kinda just felt like I was making him do his job...
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I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
anymore than English or History is
It'll be the same for them too.
Nobody appreciates learning for the sake of learning anymore, learning is strictly for getting jobs. Although if you have the money to spend on getting many degrees worrying about paying off loans, then there may be another aspect to the resentment, considering the cost of university these days -
I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
Philosophy gets a bad rap, even by fellow academics sometimes. Commonly cited criticisms are that it has become too prosaic and detached from society at large. Maybe that's true of some philosophers but I don't see a problem with people studying something purely for the joy of learning and there are philosophers who do an excellent job of explaining philosophical ideas to lay audiences, Alain de Botton immediately springs to mind. Status Anxiety is among my favourite videos.
The reality is that we have too few people who think about what it means to live a good life and make a wholesome society
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I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Frankly because everybody knows somebody in that line of academic study, or knows somebody that knows somebody. And it's generally regarded as a waste of time with no practical outcome. My BIL studied philosophy for 10 years and ended up starting his own treadmill repair company, leveraging his previous skills as a mechanic. You just wasted 10 years of your life and $300,000 of money/opportunity-cost, basically, when most people can't pay their rent, afford food, or have basic comforts.
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I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn't for me.
When people find this out about me... they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.
It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.
I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.
What do you work as?
