Macron Suggests Extending French Nuclear Umbrella To European Allies In Face Of Russian Aggression.
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Are you from France? Or just another "socialist" that spends all their time attacking world leaders that are opposed to fascism?
Macron is not opposed to fascism. If he was, he would have embraced the center-left coalition instead of forcing a center-right coalition which failed within a year, further strengthening the fascists in France.
Neoliberal Capitalists are always open to Fascism as long as it preserves their wealth.
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Wouldn't mind a cold one tbh
It's only cold because, if slightly anything goes awry, humanity ceases to exist.
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It's only cold because, if slightly anything goes awry, humanity ceases to exist.
That was terrifying sixty years ago. Nowadays lots is going wrong and we're actively leaning into the destruction of our habitat.
Not placing any false equivalencies on the table here, MAD would be worse. It's just that we're used to the idea by now, too numb.
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Macron is a neoliberal d*** to his people, which is why there is so much unrest in France. He blocked a center-left majority coalition in favor of forcing a center-right coalition that since failed, after pulling the same snap-election stuff that got the Brexit in the UK.
Macron is the epitome of the rich exploiting the rest. It is just that he understands that EU is central to maintaining his rich friends assets.
Thank you; I've felt like I've been hallucinating the past week with Lemmy doubling down on capitalism – but I'm our backyard – and seemingly neglecting that Europe had its own long, and currently ongoing, history of colonialism and exploration.
The reach for shoring up existing systems – but just, now, in European control – rather than establishing better ones has been massively disappointing.
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French President Emmanuel Macron said it would be “madness” to ignore the threat Russia has become for Europe and said he is open to discussing the extension of France's nuclear deterrence to Paris's European allies.
Nuclear umbrella is a good band name
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French President Emmanuel Macron said it would be “madness” to ignore the threat Russia has become for Europe and said he is open to discussing the extension of France's nuclear deterrence to Paris's European allies.
As it should. Federalise NOW! It is the only REAL option
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Viva la France!
But we cannot expect France to shoulder the entire burden. Other European nation should consider developing their own weapons as well.
Exactly!
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French President Emmanuel Macron said it would be “madness” to ignore the threat Russia has become for Europe and said he is open to discussing the extension of France's nuclear deterrence to Paris's European allies.
People make fun of France for their military due to a meme but damn.
They are ready to protest, have the guillotines and also have Fuck Putin nukes.
Ah France, I hope you never change.
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Preemptive defense is just a fancy way of saying first strike.
And if you're going to do a first strike against russia, you need a lot of capacity. A lot. You basically have to destroy nuclear assets in three hemispheres at the same time. Not including the oceans.
First strike is a great tool against asymmetric adversaries, but peer or near peer adversaries it's not an option
Bro by definition you can only have two hemispheres. Lmao
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Which of France's allies truly believes that, in the event of an imminent threat of conflict with a nuclear power, France would be willing to defend an ally? Given France's history of double standards and frequent shifts in stance, such a commitment seems highly questionable.
I trust France a damn sight more than I trust the US
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Bro by definition you can only have two hemispheres. Lmao
How many R are there in Strawberry
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Bro by definition you can only have two hemispheres. Lmao
Unless you let some of them overlap, I guess, which is maybe what OP was thinking.
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Is this the start of Cold War 2.0 ?
Hopefully. All the other possibilities I can think of are darker.
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That was terrifying sixty years ago. Nowadays lots is going wrong and we're actively leaning into the destruction of our habitat.
Not placing any false equivalencies on the table here, MAD would be worse. It's just that we're used to the idea by now, too numb.
And there's rituals and rules with gravity surrounding them now. During the Cuban missile crisis nukes were seen as just another weapon. At this point they're more like symbols of state that you can hypothetically end the world with.
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France has what NATO doesnt: a preemptive defense nuclear option.
Does the UK not have first strike capabilities?
(I know nothing!)
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People make fun of France for their military due to a meme but damn.
They are ready to protest, have the guillotines and also have Fuck Putin nukes.
Ah France, I hope you never change.
Relevant XKCD. (On explain, because it's Umwelt)
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I trust France a damn sight more than I trust the US
Well, that doesn't mean hope is high. Historically, France acquired nuclear weapons because it believes that only its own capabilities can guarantee its defense, rather than relying on the protection of another nuclear power. If France does not trust others to ensure its own security, why should its allies do that? In his speech yesterday, Macron emphasized that other European countries must develop their own defense capabilities. Furthermore, it is not a new concept that France’s nuclear arsenal also serves as a deterrent against attacks on its allies.
https://www.defense.gouv.fr/dgris/politique-defense/la-dissuasion-nucleaire-francaise
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Does the UK not have first strike capabilities?
(I know nothing!)
It has the capability, but not the doctrine. Most nato countries have a mutually assured destruction policed enforced by secondary strikes in retaliation for a nuclear attack. France says "fuck that" and has a nuclear warning shot. None of the retaliatory nonsense. Clear aggression will be met with a limited nuclear strike with a dare to do something about it and start the real fireworks.
All "nuclear doctrine" is just outlining how far each country is willing to hold when playing chicken. America can afford to sit back and wait to retaliate because no one strike can feasibly take down every nuke America has. France doesn't really have that option, so their public stance is to use nukes as soon as their ability to use said nukes could be compromised, hence preemptive nuclear option.
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It has the capability, but not the doctrine. Most nato countries have a mutually assured destruction policed enforced by secondary strikes in retaliation for a nuclear attack. France says "fuck that" and has a nuclear warning shot. None of the retaliatory nonsense. Clear aggression will be met with a limited nuclear strike with a dare to do something about it and start the real fireworks.
All "nuclear doctrine" is just outlining how far each country is willing to hold when playing chicken. America can afford to sit back and wait to retaliate because no one strike can feasibly take down every nuke America has. France doesn't really have that option, so their public stance is to use nukes as soon as their ability to use said nukes could be compromised, hence preemptive nuclear option.
Fascinating insight, thank you
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And there's rituals and rules with gravity surrounding them now. During the Cuban missile crisis nukes were seen as just another weapon. At this point they're more like symbols of state that you can hypothetically end the world with.
I have to quibble with the idea that they were seem that way during the cold war. There was plenty of that attitude going around when America had the bomb alone of all others, but by the bay of pigs and all that, the logic of MAD was fully in effect. The field of game theory was being studied at that time by RAND specifically around possible applications with nuclear warfare.
I don't know if there's one prevailing mindset around nukes today, but I think we can both agree that the less people see them as mere weaponry, the better. I also fear that the 'madman theory' of Nixon's era is still being applied by too many rogue nations (in which I now include the US, personally). Such charades are eventually fatal.
