Norway is set to become the first country to fully transition to electric vehicles

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Diesel straight up doesn't run when it gets cold enough. Diesel fuel becomes jelly in the negatives.

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My apologies I should have been more specific. It's a special diesel fuel they call AN8. Generally still referred to simpy as Diesel. The vehicles they put it into are diesel vehicles.

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And this is the nuanced answer that begins to give context to the issue.

Absolutely correct.

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Sure, here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31joJUU4X-g fairly early in the video.

I'm not even going to start debunking your arguments because they're such assumptions it's laughable. What are you even on about? Kids in Congo? Get a grip mate.

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https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/02/01/1152893248/red-cobalt-congo-drc-mining-siddharth-kara

Feel free to do your own research at any point. The materials required for the massive batteries in all those EVs have to come from somewhere and they generally are obtained through slave and child labor in third world countries.

Also your "source" is a privately run show from a former actor and comedian who really likes EVs and he gathered an audience that donate money to him through patron to keep the show going. That's a biased source if I've ever seen one. Of course the guy who makes a living in the EV space is going to do nothing but sing the praises of the Almighty EV.

I feel it bears repeating I am not even again against EVs. I simply do not care for how the EV super fans talk about their stuff. They always seem to pick and choose whatever information is convenient for them and their favorite tech whole conveniently leaving out anything negative.

I do believe electric will be the future. We just have some problems to sort out on the energy density side of things. Battery technology still just isn't quite ready and even if we sick with lithium we need to find a better way to get the materials required.

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Which is why they are heated before being charged, either by the on-board heater if it’s been parked, or naturally by just driving the damn thing.

You said EVs don’t work well in the cold. That is a demonstrably false statement by the fact that Norway has over 500 000 of them rolling around all year. You can post as many misinformed links supporting it as you wish. If it had any merit, we would not be at 90%+ adoption rating.

Either you are the biggest genious in the world and we are half a million morons, or you are just wrong.
The fact that I drive mine in weather spanning from -30 C to +25 C makes suspect the latter.

Have a good one, mate.

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Brother what are you talking about. I said they function in the cold. They don't work well in the cold. They have recommended temperature ranges for a reason. I am simply pointing out the significant hit to battery performance and lifespan that the deep cold adds.

I havent posted any "misinformation". You can literally verify every statement I've made with a number of scientific papers and studies on the effects of temperature and batteries. We have known they don't work well in the cold for years. I have had to stick an untold number of cellphones into my inner layer pants pockets to prevent them from completely shutting off or refusing to charge because they got way too cold to safely operate.

By owning and driving fully electric cars in the significant cold they are absolutely lowering of the lifespan of those batteries meaning they need to be replaced more often. The batteries are far and away the biggest source of pollution in an EV.

You can call me names and whatever else you want but at least be scientifically accurate.

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What you posted is irrelevant, the other guy gave you an answer in the first sentence: you heat the batteries up if needed. Problem solved.

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Because there's not enough electric capacity in remote locations and fuel is more energy dense. But 99.9999995% of people are not living in the south pole, you don't need a spaceship to go buy bread.

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About 20% less efficient, so still 60% more than ICE.

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Hey super genius if your have a car that only has batteries inside it as an energy source what do you use to heat up the batteries so the batteries are working inside their correct temperature range? The batteries. Which are cold because you parked it outside in a place that averages close to zero degrees depending on the region and time of year. Sure if you park it in your heated garage and then park it at work at a heated garage and you only ever drive it between those locations the cold will basically hit matter but if you ever leave the car anywhere that it will drop down to ambient outside temps then it will be causing damage to the batteries when they use their own cold juices to get warmed up enough to do their job right.

I know that when charging they will sip power to heat the batteries to the proper temperature for charging (and they heat up a tad naturally when charged), but anyone who isn't always charging it while parked or leaving inside a heated garage that will not be the case.

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They don't withdraw much from that fund though and have an annual ceiling of 3% of its value, they still pay a good amount of taxes (22% on income, 25% sales tax). Blaming the oil fund just shows how lacking other countries management is.

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While there is no hard rules involved with the word "slightly" when used to describe a change in percentage it is generally used for changes of 5% or less.

Yes this is getting pedantic about the English language but a 20% change would be more accurately referred to as a "moderate" change.

And you are absolutely correct ICE engines are always less thermally efficient than EVs. Your average standard gasoline engine these days is somewhere in the ballpark of ~25% efficient. Some of the more efficient diesel ICEs are up to 50% efficient these days. EVs tend to be around ~90% thermally efficient.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2667141723001088#:~:text=Typically%2C most Li-ion battery,]%2C [21]].

Also it's not a 20% loss at 0°C. It's closer to 50%. Which would be most accurately described as a "significant" loss of efficiency.

https://ev.aaa.com/articles/are-electric-cars-good-in-winter/#:~:text=How much of a,car's heating system is on.

Even AAA did research that shows it's anywhere from 10% loss in range to 40% loss as you get colder and colder.

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The misinformation is that they don't work well in the cold. Truth be told, they are fantastic in the cold. I'd argue better than ICE. That's a different topic for a different day though.

You are, rightfully so, claiming batteries don't like cold temperatures. What you fail to add are the mitigations companies make to solve these issues. That feels disingenous, unless you just didn't know.

If your phone had the capaticity and function to heat itself up during outdoor use, it would also work brilliantly.

So while I'm sure the scientific papers are great, without having read them, I'd guess they don't include the whole picture either as if they would, we'd be in agreement.

I tried finding where I called you any names and failed, but if you felt attacked then I appoligize for that. I have nothing against you or think you deserve that. We are just disagreeing on this one topic.

Have a good night!

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Has no one told them that EVs don't work when it's cold?

/s

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This is true, but the batteries do not suffer any harm by being used when cold, just charging which we by now agree is not an issue as long as the car heats them up first.

They also expell heat by being used, so they are nice and toasty for when you reach you destination and can plug in.

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they generally are obtained through slave and child labor in third world countries.

Isn't that for pretty much everything?

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Yes and no. It depends on what material you are specifically looking for.

For the grand majority of materials needed in an ICE vehicle we have had "ethical" sources for everything for awhile now. Which makes sense the industry has had 100 years to clean up its image as much as they cared to.

The materials needed specifically for large lithium batteries are still currently gathered primally in places where human rights aren't even considered. People are working on getting that changed, but last time I checked it was still really bad.

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I remember using Google Street View in Norway, every single corner you turn...there's an EV!

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I swear all my coworkers keep asking what I'm going to do when my battery dies in the cold smfh

and even my wife still has range anxiety despite traveling half of I-95 multiple times

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Norway is set to become the first country to fully transition to electric vehicles