Coders or lemmy, what editors do you use? Is it worth learning a new one?
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I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster
I've always been skeptical that optimizing text input speed would make a significant difference to overall performance. IMO if you are unhappy with your setup then look around but if you're not you don't need to have FOMO about it.
That's the thing: I do feel vscode being slow. On my work machine, it's fine - it takes about two seconds to open a project from start. But on my older laptop, that's a solid 10 sec before I can start editing.
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When I was in high school I found Sublime Text and learned "multiple cursors". Since then, I've transitioned to vscode, mainly because I need LSP (without too much configuration work) for my work.
I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor. I've been looking at helix, as the 4th generation of the vi line of editors. Is anyone using it? Is it any good for the main code editor?
The problem that I have is that learning new editing keybindings would probably take me a month of time, before I get to the same amount of productivity (if I ever get here at all). So I'm looking for advice of people who have already done that before.
My code editing does involve a lot of "ctrl-arrow" to move around words, "ctrl-shift-arrow" to select words, "home/end" to move to beginning/end of the line, "ctrl-d" for "new cursor at next occurrence", "shift-alt-down" for "new cursor in the line below", "ctrl-shift-f" for "format file" and a few more to move around using LSP-provided "declaration"/"usages".
I would have to unlearn all of that.
Also, I do use "ctrl-arrow" to edit this post. Have you changed keybindings in firefox too?
Sublime Text.
The only thing I need from my editor is syntax highlighting and not be slow.
(Assembler, C, Python, Java and Bash are the languages I mostly work with)
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I use Helix
TLDR: Yes I think helix is worth trying out. It has some missing features but it is an amazing piece of software.
Yes I use helix daily. It is very fun to use and you can do many things faster. It is particularly good when navigating a (large) codebase you know fairly well. You are able to jump around and find/edit relevant code very quickly.
Compared to vs code:
- it is much faster and more minimal
- It might be harder to get things up and running than in vs code, e.g. to get auto-completion working in helix you need to have the LSP for that language installed. It can be a bit confusing if you have never done it before but it is easy once you have done it a few times.
Compared to neovim I think it is:
- easier to learn
- slightly faster - especially with large files
- you will have a much smaller/simpler configuration. AFAIK Helix has more features working out of the box than neovim (file picker, lsp support ect) and needs less configuration to get things to a workable state.
The downside of helix compared to both neovim and vscode is that it does not have plugin support yet so you will need to use other tools in combination with it to get an equivalent experience. Here are some tools that are commonly used with helix:
- yazi - terminal file manager
- gitui or lazygit - terminal git user interface
- zellij - terminal pane manager
Helix really shines when performance matters. I have edited files with millions of lines and had no trouble on codebases where my colleagues IDE's become very slow.
I recommend you use the tutor (
hx --tutor) for a few minutes each day to learn the keybidings.I've recently taken to kakoune which was one of the inspirations for Helix.
It's not as fancy (in terms of built-in features) out of the box, but it's very performant, integrates with tmux well, and for the C++ and Python I'm writing I haven't felt the need for much beyond token based word completion and grep.
The client server model it uses has really let me improve my tmux skills because I'm working inside of it more and using it for editor splits.
I don't know if Helix does this, but I've also come to love the pipe operator (where you just pipe a selection into some external program and the selection gets replaced with the output, so you can use the e.g. the sort command to sort text). You can also pretty easily add in custom extensions via command line programs.
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When I was in high school I found Sublime Text and learned "multiple cursors". Since then, I've transitioned to vscode, mainly because I need LSP (without too much configuration work) for my work.
I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor. I've been looking at helix, as the 4th generation of the vi line of editors. Is anyone using it? Is it any good for the main code editor?
The problem that I have is that learning new editing keybindings would probably take me a month of time, before I get to the same amount of productivity (if I ever get here at all). So I'm looking for advice of people who have already done that before.
My code editing does involve a lot of "ctrl-arrow" to move around words, "ctrl-shift-arrow" to select words, "home/end" to move to beginning/end of the line, "ctrl-d" for "new cursor at next occurrence", "shift-alt-down" for "new cursor in the line below", "ctrl-shift-f" for "format file" and a few more to move around using LSP-provided "declaration"/"usages".
I would have to unlearn all of that.
Also, I do use "ctrl-arrow" to edit this post. Have you changed keybindings in firefox too?
Panic Nova on macOS, VSCode on Windows, neovim in the Shell.
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When I was in high school I found Sublime Text and learned "multiple cursors". Since then, I've transitioned to vscode, mainly because I need LSP (without too much configuration work) for my work.
I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor. I've been looking at helix, as the 4th generation of the vi line of editors. Is anyone using it? Is it any good for the main code editor?
The problem that I have is that learning new editing keybindings would probably take me a month of time, before I get to the same amount of productivity (if I ever get here at all). So I'm looking for advice of people who have already done that before.
My code editing does involve a lot of "ctrl-arrow" to move around words, "ctrl-shift-arrow" to select words, "home/end" to move to beginning/end of the line, "ctrl-d" for "new cursor at next occurrence", "shift-alt-down" for "new cursor in the line below", "ctrl-shift-f" for "format file" and a few more to move around using LSP-provided "declaration"/"usages".
I would have to unlearn all of that.
Also, I do use "ctrl-arrow" to edit this post. Have you changed keybindings in firefox too?
neovim. i much prefer the motions of helix, but there’s just some plugins i can’t live without.
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I use Helix
TLDR: Yes I think helix is worth trying out. It has some missing features but it is an amazing piece of software.
Yes I use helix daily. It is very fun to use and you can do many things faster. It is particularly good when navigating a (large) codebase you know fairly well. You are able to jump around and find/edit relevant code very quickly.
Compared to vs code:
- it is much faster and more minimal
- It might be harder to get things up and running than in vs code, e.g. to get auto-completion working in helix you need to have the LSP for that language installed. It can be a bit confusing if you have never done it before but it is easy once you have done it a few times.
Compared to neovim I think it is:
- easier to learn
- slightly faster - especially with large files
- you will have a much smaller/simpler configuration. AFAIK Helix has more features working out of the box than neovim (file picker, lsp support ect) and needs less configuration to get things to a workable state.
The downside of helix compared to both neovim and vscode is that it does not have plugin support yet so you will need to use other tools in combination with it to get an equivalent experience. Here are some tools that are commonly used with helix:
- yazi - terminal file manager
- gitui or lazygit - terminal git user interface
- zellij - terminal pane manager
Helix really shines when performance matters. I have edited files with millions of lines and had no trouble on codebases where my colleagues IDE's become very slow.
I recommend you use the tutor (
hx --tutor) for a few minutes each day to learn the keybidings.Thanks for the overview. I'll work with tutor and see how frustrated I get
Regarding language servers:
Recently, I got into this philosophy of "every project needs a declarative environment". It means that there is a committed file that should contain all tooling need to work with the project. Compilers, formatters, test runners and also: language servers.
This fights with vscode extensions which try to be clever and download their language server / bundle it into the extension itself. "No, rust-analyzer, I don't want your build because it does not work with xtensa target arch I'm using in this project".
So actually, this ties nicely with helix not providing the language servers itself, but allowing you to bring your own.
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When I was in high school I found Sublime Text and learned "multiple cursors". Since then, I've transitioned to vscode, mainly because I need LSP (without too much configuration work) for my work.
I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor. I've been looking at helix, as the 4th generation of the vi line of editors. Is anyone using it? Is it any good for the main code editor?
The problem that I have is that learning new editing keybindings would probably take me a month of time, before I get to the same amount of productivity (if I ever get here at all). So I'm looking for advice of people who have already done that before.
My code editing does involve a lot of "ctrl-arrow" to move around words, "ctrl-shift-arrow" to select words, "home/end" to move to beginning/end of the line, "ctrl-d" for "new cursor at next occurrence", "shift-alt-down" for "new cursor in the line below", "ctrl-shift-f" for "format file" and a few more to move around using LSP-provided "declaration"/"usages".
I would have to unlearn all of that.
Also, I do use "ctrl-arrow" to edit this post. Have you changed keybindings in firefox too?
Vscodium. Anything else (ESPECIALLY VIM, SO DON'T TELL ME TO USE VIM) makes my brain want to eject itself into the 37th dimension to look for Nirvana and the true purpose of life.
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Well, I've successfully used LSP for Sublime Text before. Would probably still use it if I hadn't transitioned to Neovim recently.
I do still use sublime as a "note" app, where I a "cheatsheet" open with a bunch of common commands I need for our project + a todo.
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When I was in high school I found Sublime Text and learned "multiple cursors". Since then, I've transitioned to vscode, mainly because I need LSP (without too much configuration work) for my work.
I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor. I've been looking at helix, as the 4th generation of the vi line of editors. Is anyone using it? Is it any good for the main code editor?
The problem that I have is that learning new editing keybindings would probably take me a month of time, before I get to the same amount of productivity (if I ever get here at all). So I'm looking for advice of people who have already done that before.
My code editing does involve a lot of "ctrl-arrow" to move around words, "ctrl-shift-arrow" to select words, "home/end" to move to beginning/end of the line, "ctrl-d" for "new cursor at next occurrence", "shift-alt-down" for "new cursor in the line below", "ctrl-shift-f" for "format file" and a few more to move around using LSP-provided "declaration"/"usages".
I would have to unlearn all of that.
Also, I do use "ctrl-arrow" to edit this post. Have you changed keybindings in firefox too?
I use the vi option or plugins for Sublime, PHPStorm, and Pycharm or whichever IDE I'm using.
Works for chrome and Firefox too. -
Vscodium. Anything else (ESPECIALLY VIM, SO DON'T TELL ME TO USE VIM) makes my brain want to eject itself into the 37th dimension to look for Nirvana and the true purpose of life.
Haha, I know that feeling from earlier when I was trying out
hx --tutor. Just staring a the keyboard trying to remember which key to press, only to press the wrong one and have it do something completely unexpected. -
I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor.
Honestly I've yet to hear a good argument for this. It feels like such a major investment to switch to vi-like editors, I need a pretty good argument before considering it
Also a good argument for "why does it matter"? Speed of editing is rarely a bottleneck when editing code. If it is, you might want to consider why your code is so verbose and repetitive to make it so
That's a good argument. The editing speed is not the limiting factor in my workflow.
Honestly, I think my interest for modal editing is a bit irrational. Maybe I don't want to be a normie, using the default keybindings
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Throughout my career, I have used (in no particular order)
- Eclipse (as Android Studio)
- IntelliJ (as Android Studio)
- SublimeText
- VS Code
- IntelliJ (as IntelliJ)
- various CLI editors when sshing into servers (vim, nano, a few others)
Switching your muscle memory takes a long time, which is why you have things like spacemacs, or different keybind presets for almost all of these editors.
There is more value in understanding how to extend and customize your editor than in searching for a new one. Use whatever your workplace provides the best support for, and then customize it from there.
There is more value in understanding how to extend and customize your editor than in searching for a new one. Use whatever your workplace provides the best support for, and then customize it from there.
I think there's something to be said for shaking up your environment periodically as well and trying new things. Sure, there's a week where you edit at a snails pace, followed by a month where you edit a bit slower than normal, but different tools really do have different pros and cons.
For the code bases I've worked in, this evolved from necessity as the code files were so large many editors were struggling, the rules for the style so custom that editors can't be properly configured to match, or the editor performance in general was questionable.
I went through a journey of sorts from IDEs to Electron based editors to Emacs and currently am working with Kakoune (and a bunch of other editors like Sublime, Helix, and Zed that couldn't meet my requirements or didn't match my sensibilities). Pretty much every change has been the result of the editor pain points that couldn't be addressed without actually working on the editor itself.
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When I was in high school I found Sublime Text and learned "multiple cursors". Since then, I've transitioned to vscode, mainly because I need LSP (without too much configuration work) for my work.
I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor. I've been looking at helix, as the 4th generation of the vi line of editors. Is anyone using it? Is it any good for the main code editor?
The problem that I have is that learning new editing keybindings would probably take me a month of time, before I get to the same amount of productivity (if I ever get here at all). So I'm looking for advice of people who have already done that before.
My code editing does involve a lot of "ctrl-arrow" to move around words, "ctrl-shift-arrow" to select words, "home/end" to move to beginning/end of the line, "ctrl-d" for "new cursor at next occurrence", "shift-alt-down" for "new cursor in the line below", "ctrl-shift-f" for "format file" and a few more to move around using LSP-provided "declaration"/"usages".
I would have to unlearn all of that.
Also, I do use "ctrl-arrow" to edit this post. Have you changed keybindings in firefox too?
seeing mscode/codium/vswhatever makes my brain hurt. geocities of code.
now i am using Zed. problem solved. -
When I was in high school I found Sublime Text and learned "multiple cursors". Since then, I've transitioned to vscode, mainly because I need LSP (without too much configuration work) for my work.
I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor. I've been looking at helix, as the 4th generation of the vi line of editors. Is anyone using it? Is it any good for the main code editor?
The problem that I have is that learning new editing keybindings would probably take me a month of time, before I get to the same amount of productivity (if I ever get here at all). So I'm looking for advice of people who have already done that before.
My code editing does involve a lot of "ctrl-arrow" to move around words, "ctrl-shift-arrow" to select words, "home/end" to move to beginning/end of the line, "ctrl-d" for "new cursor at next occurrence", "shift-alt-down" for "new cursor in the line below", "ctrl-shift-f" for "format file" and a few more to move around using LSP-provided "declaration"/"usages".
I would have to unlearn all of that.
Also, I do use "ctrl-arrow" to edit this post. Have you changed keybindings in firefox too?
Helix’s is amazing. It’s pretty simple and it has tons of out of the box features like lsp support. I switched from vim and never looked back tbh. It’s far superior
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When I was in high school I found Sublime Text and learned "multiple cursors". Since then, I've transitioned to vscode, mainly because I need LSP (without too much configuration work) for my work.
I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor. I've been looking at helix, as the 4th generation of the vi line of editors. Is anyone using it? Is it any good for the main code editor?
The problem that I have is that learning new editing keybindings would probably take me a month of time, before I get to the same amount of productivity (if I ever get here at all). So I'm looking for advice of people who have already done that before.
My code editing does involve a lot of "ctrl-arrow" to move around words, "ctrl-shift-arrow" to select words, "home/end" to move to beginning/end of the line, "ctrl-d" for "new cursor at next occurrence", "shift-alt-down" for "new cursor in the line below", "ctrl-shift-f" for "format file" and a few more to move around using LSP-provided "declaration"/"usages".
I would have to unlearn all of that.
Also, I do use "ctrl-arrow" to edit this post. Have you changed keybindings in firefox too?
vim with appropriate syntax highlighting, or kate
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seeing mscode/codium/vswhatever makes my brain hurt. geocities of code.
now i am using Zed. problem solved.Why geocities of code?
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Why geocities of code?
like geocities pages back than by default everyone is lowkey ricing it to look like shit.
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When I was in high school I found Sublime Text and learned "multiple cursors". Since then, I've transitioned to vscode, mainly because I need LSP (without too much configuration work) for my work.
I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor. I've been looking at helix, as the 4th generation of the vi line of editors. Is anyone using it? Is it any good for the main code editor?
The problem that I have is that learning new editing keybindings would probably take me a month of time, before I get to the same amount of productivity (if I ever get here at all). So I'm looking for advice of people who have already done that before.
My code editing does involve a lot of "ctrl-arrow" to move around words, "ctrl-shift-arrow" to select words, "home/end" to move to beginning/end of the line, "ctrl-d" for "new cursor at next occurrence", "shift-alt-down" for "new cursor in the line below", "ctrl-shift-f" for "format file" and a few more to move around using LSP-provided "declaration"/"usages".
I would have to unlearn all of that.
Also, I do use "ctrl-arrow" to edit this post. Have you changed keybindings in firefox too?
I mainly work with C#, where I use Visual Studio. I think I mainly changed bindings for expand selection, and go to definition, declaration, implementation (ALT+A/+S/+D). All other bindings work out for me.
Cursor and selection "jumping" with CTRL and SHIFT, and using multiple cursors is a regular occurrence for me. I largely keep using keyboard, but for navigating I do often switch to or combine it with mouse.
When it's not C#, it's often VS Code, or otherwise Notepad++ for non-IDE simple editing. For even simpler quick edits I also use Double Commanders integrated text editor.
I use TortoiseGit, and its diff editor. I sometimes make changes there too. I also occasionally use KDiff or Winmerge.
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When I was in high school I found Sublime Text and learned "multiple cursors". Since then, I've transitioned to vscode, mainly because I need LSP (without too much configuration work) for my work.
I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor. I've been looking at helix, as the 4th generation of the vi line of editors. Is anyone using it? Is it any good for the main code editor?
The problem that I have is that learning new editing keybindings would probably take me a month of time, before I get to the same amount of productivity (if I ever get here at all). So I'm looking for advice of people who have already done that before.
My code editing does involve a lot of "ctrl-arrow" to move around words, "ctrl-shift-arrow" to select words, "home/end" to move to beginning/end of the line, "ctrl-d" for "new cursor at next occurrence", "shift-alt-down" for "new cursor in the line below", "ctrl-shift-f" for "format file" and a few more to move around using LSP-provided "declaration"/"usages".
I would have to unlearn all of that.
Also, I do use "ctrl-arrow" to edit this post. Have you changed keybindings in firefox too?
@verstra I use Jetbrains for pretty much anything except C++, their editors are the best. I use it for PHP, Go, Java/Kotlin, C#, databases, Typescript and I'm probably missing something.
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When I was in high school I found Sublime Text and learned "multiple cursors". Since then, I've transitioned to vscode, mainly because I need LSP (without too much configuration work) for my work.
I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor. I've been looking at helix, as the 4th generation of the vi line of editors. Is anyone using it? Is it any good for the main code editor?
The problem that I have is that learning new editing keybindings would probably take me a month of time, before I get to the same amount of productivity (if I ever get here at all). So I'm looking for advice of people who have already done that before.
My code editing does involve a lot of "ctrl-arrow" to move around words, "ctrl-shift-arrow" to select words, "home/end" to move to beginning/end of the line, "ctrl-d" for "new cursor at next occurrence", "shift-alt-down" for "new cursor in the line below", "ctrl-shift-f" for "format file" and a few more to move around using LSP-provided "declaration"/"usages".
I would have to unlearn all of that.
Also, I do use "ctrl-arrow" to edit this post. Have you changed keybindings in firefox too?
Depends on what device I'm using. On my tower(s), I'm typically reaching for Rider, Pycharm, or Zed. On my laptop(s) it's pretty much always Helix or Zed. On servers it's vim 100% baby. I've gotten pretty comfortable working with theses tools, so I haven't really needed to look into alternatives at all.
