Coders or lemmy, what editors do you use? Is it worth learning a new one?
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Throughout my career, I have used (in no particular order)
- Eclipse (as Android Studio)
- IntelliJ (as Android Studio)
- SublimeText
- VS Code
- IntelliJ (as IntelliJ)
- various CLI editors when sshing into servers (vim, nano, a few others)
Switching your muscle memory takes a long time, which is why you have things like spacemacs, or different keybind presets for almost all of these editors.
There is more value in understanding how to extend and customize your editor than in searching for a new one. Use whatever your workplace provides the best support for, and then customize it from there.
That's how I ended up with a latex plugin for intellij
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When I was in high school I found Sublime Text and learned "multiple cursors". Since then, I've transitioned to vscode, mainly because I need LSP (without too much configuration work) for my work.
I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor. I've been looking at helix, as the 4th generation of the vi line of editors. Is anyone using it? Is it any good for the main code editor?
The problem that I have is that learning new editing keybindings would probably take me a month of time, before I get to the same amount of productivity (if I ever get here at all). So I'm looking for advice of people who have already done that before.
My code editing does involve a lot of "ctrl-arrow" to move around words, "ctrl-shift-arrow" to select words, "home/end" to move to beginning/end of the line, "ctrl-d" for "new cursor at next occurrence", "shift-alt-down" for "new cursor in the line below", "ctrl-shift-f" for "format file" and a few more to move around using LSP-provided "declaration"/"usages".
I would have to unlearn all of that.
Also, I do use "ctrl-arrow" to edit this post. Have you changed keybindings in firefox too?
Doom Emacs and lazyvim nvim.
Don't know about helix, and don't really care.
Modal is incomparably more comfortable, that's the main benefit.
The problem that I have is that learning new editing keybindings would probably take me a month of time, before I get to the same amount of productivity
Do you imagine vi-based editors don't let you use your mouse or what? Go through vim-tutor, learn the basic shortcuts you need, and you're back to your old productivity in a few days. You don't need to learn vi" to select a string, you can just use your mouse.
No offense to you or your habits, but C-arrow is an idiotic movement scheme. If you have to leave the home row to move around the text, you fucked up.
Just go through vim tutor...
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Netbeaners! Unite!
A coworker has told me that in a previous job, he was talking to an intern and mentioned IRC and intern asked what was that. He told him that it is the "old instant messaging", which another senior coworker overheard and chimed in that "no, IRC is the new messaging thing".
If someone would be asking be what netbean is, I'd say "an IDE from the old generation of editors", but I guess that is all relative
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I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor.
Honestly I've yet to hear a good argument for this. It feels like such a major investment to switch to vi-like editors, I need a pretty good argument before considering it
Also a good argument for "why does it matter"? Speed of editing is rarely a bottleneck when editing code. If it is, you might want to consider why your code is so verbose and repetitive to make it so
Modal editing for just raw text input would actually be slower, because you also enter and leave Insert Mode. I find it's very fast and powerful for navigating around the text, which you probably do a lot more than actually editing it. And when it does come to editing, there are a lot of higher-level tools (at least in Vim) for accomplishing things more quickly, like the 's' command and 'q' macros.
I think getting into a mental "flow" state is really valuable, and muscle memory is important for being able to stay there. If your muscle memory is to navigate around using the mouse, that's great, but Vim feels faster to me.
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I use Helix
TLDR: Yes I think helix is worth trying out. It has some missing features but it is an amazing piece of software.
Yes I use helix daily. It is very fun to use and you can do many things faster. It is particularly good when navigating a (large) codebase you know fairly well. You are able to jump around and find/edit relevant code very quickly.
Compared to vs code:
- it is much faster and more minimal
- It might be harder to get things up and running than in vs code, e.g. to get auto-completion working in helix you need to have the LSP for that language installed. It can be a bit confusing if you have never done it before but it is easy once you have done it a few times.
Compared to neovim I think it is:
- easier to learn
- slightly faster - especially with large files
- you will have a much smaller/simpler configuration. AFAIK Helix has more features working out of the box than neovim (file picker, lsp support ect) and needs less configuration to get things to a workable state.
The downside of helix compared to both neovim and vscode is that it does not have plugin support yet so you will need to use other tools in combination with it to get an equivalent experience. Here are some tools that are commonly used with helix:
- yazi - terminal file manager
- gitui or lazygit - terminal git user interface
- zellij - terminal pane manager
Helix really shines when performance matters. I have edited files with millions of lines and had no trouble on codebases where my colleagues IDE's become very slow.
I recommend you use the tutor (
hx --tutor) for a few minutes each day to learn the keybidings.I happily use Helix for Rust, etc projects, and as a general editor. I switch back to VSCode for TypeScript/Svelte projects because the plugins make it more productive for me. I do miss the editing experience and need to check if there's a VSCode plugin that lets me not confuse my muscle memory.
Helix was the thing that finally made me remap my
tabkey toesc. -
When I was in high school I found Sublime Text and learned "multiple cursors". Since then, I've transitioned to vscode, mainly because I need LSP (without too much configuration work) for my work.
I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor. I've been looking at helix, as the 4th generation of the vi line of editors. Is anyone using it? Is it any good for the main code editor?
The problem that I have is that learning new editing keybindings would probably take me a month of time, before I get to the same amount of productivity (if I ever get here at all). So I'm looking for advice of people who have already done that before.
My code editing does involve a lot of "ctrl-arrow" to move around words, "ctrl-shift-arrow" to select words, "home/end" to move to beginning/end of the line, "ctrl-d" for "new cursor at next occurrence", "shift-alt-down" for "new cursor in the line below", "ctrl-shift-f" for "format file" and a few more to move around using LSP-provided "declaration"/"usages".
I would have to unlearn all of that.
Also, I do use "ctrl-arrow" to edit this post. Have you changed keybindings in firefox too?
I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster
I've always been skeptical that optimizing text input speed would make a significant difference to overall performance. IMO if you are unhappy with your setup then look around but if you're not you don't need to have FOMO about it.
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was concerned about missing out on learning more standard vim bindings and functionality.
What do you mean? Do the standard vim bindings have some specific quality that you are after?
Or do you work with many different servers and would have to use what ever editor is installed there?Well I was mostly looking to learn vim and was trying to use Helix as a way to do that because it looked like vim, but with a commands window that popped up to help learn the commands. They're upfront about making some breaking changes from vim though, and while I may not need to jump into a bunch of different machines that often I do like the flexibility of being able to hop into vi, vim, nvim, or some GUI editors with vim bindings relatively comfortably. So I found that LazyVim was more what I was looking for personally and nearly as easy to work with out of the box.
I am glad to see the project seems to be going strong. That was another minor concern of mine, there's little risk of vim going anywhere, but I remember being excited about the Atom editor a while back and that just kinda faded away. If it passes the test of time I'd be happy to try it again in the future. I figure it would be easier to go from vim -> helix than vice versa.
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I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster
I've always been skeptical that optimizing text input speed would make a significant difference to overall performance. IMO if you are unhappy with your setup then look around but if you're not you don't need to have FOMO about it.
That's the thing: I do feel vscode being slow. On my work machine, it's fine - it takes about two seconds to open a project from start. But on my older laptop, that's a solid 10 sec before I can start editing.
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When I was in high school I found Sublime Text and learned "multiple cursors". Since then, I've transitioned to vscode, mainly because I need LSP (without too much configuration work) for my work.
I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor. I've been looking at helix, as the 4th generation of the vi line of editors. Is anyone using it? Is it any good for the main code editor?
The problem that I have is that learning new editing keybindings would probably take me a month of time, before I get to the same amount of productivity (if I ever get here at all). So I'm looking for advice of people who have already done that before.
My code editing does involve a lot of "ctrl-arrow" to move around words, "ctrl-shift-arrow" to select words, "home/end" to move to beginning/end of the line, "ctrl-d" for "new cursor at next occurrence", "shift-alt-down" for "new cursor in the line below", "ctrl-shift-f" for "format file" and a few more to move around using LSP-provided "declaration"/"usages".
I would have to unlearn all of that.
Also, I do use "ctrl-arrow" to edit this post. Have you changed keybindings in firefox too?
Sublime Text.
The only thing I need from my editor is syntax highlighting and not be slow.
(Assembler, C, Python, Java and Bash are the languages I mostly work with)
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I use Helix
TLDR: Yes I think helix is worth trying out. It has some missing features but it is an amazing piece of software.
Yes I use helix daily. It is very fun to use and you can do many things faster. It is particularly good when navigating a (large) codebase you know fairly well. You are able to jump around and find/edit relevant code very quickly.
Compared to vs code:
- it is much faster and more minimal
- It might be harder to get things up and running than in vs code, e.g. to get auto-completion working in helix you need to have the LSP for that language installed. It can be a bit confusing if you have never done it before but it is easy once you have done it a few times.
Compared to neovim I think it is:
- easier to learn
- slightly faster - especially with large files
- you will have a much smaller/simpler configuration. AFAIK Helix has more features working out of the box than neovim (file picker, lsp support ect) and needs less configuration to get things to a workable state.
The downside of helix compared to both neovim and vscode is that it does not have plugin support yet so you will need to use other tools in combination with it to get an equivalent experience. Here are some tools that are commonly used with helix:
- yazi - terminal file manager
- gitui or lazygit - terminal git user interface
- zellij - terminal pane manager
Helix really shines when performance matters. I have edited files with millions of lines and had no trouble on codebases where my colleagues IDE's become very slow.
I recommend you use the tutor (
hx --tutor) for a few minutes each day to learn the keybidings.I've recently taken to kakoune which was one of the inspirations for Helix.
It's not as fancy (in terms of built-in features) out of the box, but it's very performant, integrates with tmux well, and for the C++ and Python I'm writing I haven't felt the need for much beyond token based word completion and grep.
The client server model it uses has really let me improve my tmux skills because I'm working inside of it more and using it for editor splits.
I don't know if Helix does this, but I've also come to love the pipe operator (where you just pipe a selection into some external program and the selection gets replaced with the output, so you can use the e.g. the sort command to sort text). You can also pretty easily add in custom extensions via command line programs.
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When I was in high school I found Sublime Text and learned "multiple cursors". Since then, I've transitioned to vscode, mainly because I need LSP (without too much configuration work) for my work.
I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor. I've been looking at helix, as the 4th generation of the vi line of editors. Is anyone using it? Is it any good for the main code editor?
The problem that I have is that learning new editing keybindings would probably take me a month of time, before I get to the same amount of productivity (if I ever get here at all). So I'm looking for advice of people who have already done that before.
My code editing does involve a lot of "ctrl-arrow" to move around words, "ctrl-shift-arrow" to select words, "home/end" to move to beginning/end of the line, "ctrl-d" for "new cursor at next occurrence", "shift-alt-down" for "new cursor in the line below", "ctrl-shift-f" for "format file" and a few more to move around using LSP-provided "declaration"/"usages".
I would have to unlearn all of that.
Also, I do use "ctrl-arrow" to edit this post. Have you changed keybindings in firefox too?
Panic Nova on macOS, VSCode on Windows, neovim in the Shell.
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When I was in high school I found Sublime Text and learned "multiple cursors". Since then, I've transitioned to vscode, mainly because I need LSP (without too much configuration work) for my work.
I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor. I've been looking at helix, as the 4th generation of the vi line of editors. Is anyone using it? Is it any good for the main code editor?
The problem that I have is that learning new editing keybindings would probably take me a month of time, before I get to the same amount of productivity (if I ever get here at all). So I'm looking for advice of people who have already done that before.
My code editing does involve a lot of "ctrl-arrow" to move around words, "ctrl-shift-arrow" to select words, "home/end" to move to beginning/end of the line, "ctrl-d" for "new cursor at next occurrence", "shift-alt-down" for "new cursor in the line below", "ctrl-shift-f" for "format file" and a few more to move around using LSP-provided "declaration"/"usages".
I would have to unlearn all of that.
Also, I do use "ctrl-arrow" to edit this post. Have you changed keybindings in firefox too?
neovim. i much prefer the motions of helix, but there’s just some plugins i can’t live without.
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I use Helix
TLDR: Yes I think helix is worth trying out. It has some missing features but it is an amazing piece of software.
Yes I use helix daily. It is very fun to use and you can do many things faster. It is particularly good when navigating a (large) codebase you know fairly well. You are able to jump around and find/edit relevant code very quickly.
Compared to vs code:
- it is much faster and more minimal
- It might be harder to get things up and running than in vs code, e.g. to get auto-completion working in helix you need to have the LSP for that language installed. It can be a bit confusing if you have never done it before but it is easy once you have done it a few times.
Compared to neovim I think it is:
- easier to learn
- slightly faster - especially with large files
- you will have a much smaller/simpler configuration. AFAIK Helix has more features working out of the box than neovim (file picker, lsp support ect) and needs less configuration to get things to a workable state.
The downside of helix compared to both neovim and vscode is that it does not have plugin support yet so you will need to use other tools in combination with it to get an equivalent experience. Here are some tools that are commonly used with helix:
- yazi - terminal file manager
- gitui or lazygit - terminal git user interface
- zellij - terminal pane manager
Helix really shines when performance matters. I have edited files with millions of lines and had no trouble on codebases where my colleagues IDE's become very slow.
I recommend you use the tutor (
hx --tutor) for a few minutes each day to learn the keybidings.Thanks for the overview. I'll work with tutor and see how frustrated I get
Regarding language servers:
Recently, I got into this philosophy of "every project needs a declarative environment". It means that there is a committed file that should contain all tooling need to work with the project. Compilers, formatters, test runners and also: language servers.
This fights with vscode extensions which try to be clever and download their language server / bundle it into the extension itself. "No, rust-analyzer, I don't want your build because it does not work with xtensa target arch I'm using in this project".
So actually, this ties nicely with helix not providing the language servers itself, but allowing you to bring your own.
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When I was in high school I found Sublime Text and learned "multiple cursors". Since then, I've transitioned to vscode, mainly because I need LSP (without too much configuration work) for my work.
I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor. I've been looking at helix, as the 4th generation of the vi line of editors. Is anyone using it? Is it any good for the main code editor?
The problem that I have is that learning new editing keybindings would probably take me a month of time, before I get to the same amount of productivity (if I ever get here at all). So I'm looking for advice of people who have already done that before.
My code editing does involve a lot of "ctrl-arrow" to move around words, "ctrl-shift-arrow" to select words, "home/end" to move to beginning/end of the line, "ctrl-d" for "new cursor at next occurrence", "shift-alt-down" for "new cursor in the line below", "ctrl-shift-f" for "format file" and a few more to move around using LSP-provided "declaration"/"usages".
I would have to unlearn all of that.
Also, I do use "ctrl-arrow" to edit this post. Have you changed keybindings in firefox too?
Vscodium. Anything else (ESPECIALLY VIM, SO DON'T TELL ME TO USE VIM) makes my brain want to eject itself into the 37th dimension to look for Nirvana and the true purpose of life.
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Well, I've successfully used LSP for Sublime Text before. Would probably still use it if I hadn't transitioned to Neovim recently.
I do still use sublime as a "note" app, where I a "cheatsheet" open with a bunch of common commands I need for our project + a todo.
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When I was in high school I found Sublime Text and learned "multiple cursors". Since then, I've transitioned to vscode, mainly because I need LSP (without too much configuration work) for my work.
I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor. I've been looking at helix, as the 4th generation of the vi line of editors. Is anyone using it? Is it any good for the main code editor?
The problem that I have is that learning new editing keybindings would probably take me a month of time, before I get to the same amount of productivity (if I ever get here at all). So I'm looking for advice of people who have already done that before.
My code editing does involve a lot of "ctrl-arrow" to move around words, "ctrl-shift-arrow" to select words, "home/end" to move to beginning/end of the line, "ctrl-d" for "new cursor at next occurrence", "shift-alt-down" for "new cursor in the line below", "ctrl-shift-f" for "format file" and a few more to move around using LSP-provided "declaration"/"usages".
I would have to unlearn all of that.
Also, I do use "ctrl-arrow" to edit this post. Have you changed keybindings in firefox too?
I use the vi option or plugins for Sublime, PHPStorm, and Pycharm or whichever IDE I'm using.
Works for chrome and Firefox too. -
Vscodium. Anything else (ESPECIALLY VIM, SO DON'T TELL ME TO USE VIM) makes my brain want to eject itself into the 37th dimension to look for Nirvana and the true purpose of life.
Haha, I know that feeling from earlier when I was trying out
hx --tutor. Just staring a the keyboard trying to remember which key to press, only to press the wrong one and have it do something completely unexpected. -
I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor.
Honestly I've yet to hear a good argument for this. It feels like such a major investment to switch to vi-like editors, I need a pretty good argument before considering it
Also a good argument for "why does it matter"? Speed of editing is rarely a bottleneck when editing code. If it is, you might want to consider why your code is so verbose and repetitive to make it so
That's a good argument. The editing speed is not the limiting factor in my workflow.
Honestly, I think my interest for modal editing is a bit irrational. Maybe I don't want to be a normie, using the default keybindings
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Throughout my career, I have used (in no particular order)
- Eclipse (as Android Studio)
- IntelliJ (as Android Studio)
- SublimeText
- VS Code
- IntelliJ (as IntelliJ)
- various CLI editors when sshing into servers (vim, nano, a few others)
Switching your muscle memory takes a long time, which is why you have things like spacemacs, or different keybind presets for almost all of these editors.
There is more value in understanding how to extend and customize your editor than in searching for a new one. Use whatever your workplace provides the best support for, and then customize it from there.
There is more value in understanding how to extend and customize your editor than in searching for a new one. Use whatever your workplace provides the best support for, and then customize it from there.
I think there's something to be said for shaking up your environment periodically as well and trying new things. Sure, there's a week where you edit at a snails pace, followed by a month where you edit a bit slower than normal, but different tools really do have different pros and cons.
For the code bases I've worked in, this evolved from necessity as the code files were so large many editors were struggling, the rules for the style so custom that editors can't be properly configured to match, or the editor performance in general was questionable.
I went through a journey of sorts from IDEs to Electron based editors to Emacs and currently am working with Kakoune (and a bunch of other editors like Sublime, Helix, and Zed that couldn't meet my requirements or didn't match my sensibilities). Pretty much every change has been the result of the editor pain points that couldn't be addressed without actually working on the editor itself.
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When I was in high school I found Sublime Text and learned "multiple cursors". Since then, I've transitioned to vscode, mainly because I need LSP (without too much configuration work) for my work.
I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor. I've been looking at helix, as the 4th generation of the vi line of editors. Is anyone using it? Is it any good for the main code editor?
The problem that I have is that learning new editing keybindings would probably take me a month of time, before I get to the same amount of productivity (if I ever get here at all). So I'm looking for advice of people who have already done that before.
My code editing does involve a lot of "ctrl-arrow" to move around words, "ctrl-shift-arrow" to select words, "home/end" to move to beginning/end of the line, "ctrl-d" for "new cursor at next occurrence", "shift-alt-down" for "new cursor in the line below", "ctrl-shift-f" for "format file" and a few more to move around using LSP-provided "declaration"/"usages".
I would have to unlearn all of that.
Also, I do use "ctrl-arrow" to edit this post. Have you changed keybindings in firefox too?
seeing mscode/codium/vswhatever makes my brain hurt. geocities of code.
now i am using Zed. problem solved.
