Germany is now deporting pro-Palestine EU citizens. This is a chilling new step | Hanno Hauenstein
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Explain to me how deporting people for protesting against genocide is a thing decent people do.
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Much of the mentality that enabled nazi Germany stayed. I'm half romanian, half german. I'm also part jewish. My ancestors died in the Holocaust. The German love for law and order scares me. They're overly obedient. Rarely walk out of line on serious matters. Mark my words, but someday the AfD will come to power, and they'll make use of all the tools the liberals implemented for them (suppressing protests, deporting people, cutting funding, and so on) and no one will bat an eye. Because a law is a law and therefore it is to be followed.
What mentality do you mean? The obedience? I feel like it’s more nuanced than that. Yes, following the rules everyone agreed on is lived in a rather inflexible way. If you think about it though, that’s democracy. It’s a commitment to the compromise. The unwritten contract between the majority and the minority. We recognize that the moment you start thinking "I don’t like this law, so I won’t follow it", democracy falls apart. People here want law and order even for laws they disagree with, because collectively that means that laws they agree with will also be followed by everyone.
There are limits though. While I agree that it’s scary to see the AFD become more and more popular, I disagree with your prediction. The idea of "never again" regarding the Holocaust guides every single part of public life. There are not many Germans who would say they are proud of their country. Only every two years, when Germany plays soccer in the international leagues, flying a German flag does not feel weird. Shame for your own country. That’s what Germans think everyone expects us to feel.
Strong military? We’re watching you. Your Great-Grandfather did what? Be sorry. Proud of Germany? How dare you.
The very first words of our constitution ("Human dignity is untouchable.") are a testament to the Holocaust. It’s an incredibly well chosen sentence that every single law is measured against. We know the entire world expects us to uphold this principle forever.
I am not arguing against the danger for democracy that the AFD poses. It’s very real. But in Germany we even have a law to actually make parties illegal that are against the constitution, most importantly the first sentence of it.
So, if Germans are obedient to the law, and the most important principle of our law makes anything even close to the Holocaust illegal, isn’t obedience a good thing then? The real question is, would Germans decide to just accept unconstitutional laws, or rather insist on upholding the constitution? I think the huge protests in the past months have made clear that many people are already standing up for the constitution. Not because they just follow rules blindly, but because they actually believe in the principles of compromise, democracy and dignity.
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Germany has recently taken a chilling new step, signalling its willingness to use political views as grounds to curb migration. Authorities are now moving to deport foreign nationals for participating in pro-Palestine actions. As I reported this week in the Intercept, four people in Berlin – three EU citizens and one US citizen – are set to be deported over their involvement in demonstrations against Israel’s war on Gaza. None of the four have been convicted of a crime, and yet the authorities are seeking to simply throw them out of the country.
The accusations against them include aggravated breach of the peace and obstruction of a police arrest. Reports from last year suggest that one of the actions they were alleged to have been involved in included breaking into a university building and threatening people with objects that could have been used as potential weapons.
But the deportation orders go further. They cite a broader list of alleged behaviours: chanting slogans such as “Free Gaza” and “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”, joining road blockades (a tactic frequently used by climate activists), and calling a police officer a “fascist”. Read closely, the real charge appears to be something more basic: protest itself.
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who is calling for this?
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You're being downvoted for your strawman framing. Recognising that Netanyahu's actions in Gaza (and farther, now) are unethical and illegal is absolutely not the same as calling for another Jewish genocide. Being pro-Palestine does not mean you're calling for the destruction of Israel or the murder of Jews.
There seems to be a fairly successful effort to frame any opposition of Israel's actions as antisemitic, which is a disgraceful attempt to use the suffering of Jewish ancestors as a shield against criticism today.
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Germany has recently taken a chilling new step, signalling its willingness to use political views as grounds to curb migration. Authorities are now moving to deport foreign nationals for participating in pro-Palestine actions. As I reported this week in the Intercept, four people in Berlin – three EU citizens and one US citizen – are set to be deported over their involvement in demonstrations against Israel’s war on Gaza. None of the four have been convicted of a crime, and yet the authorities are seeking to simply throw them out of the country.
The accusations against them include aggravated breach of the peace and obstruction of a police arrest. Reports from last year suggest that one of the actions they were alleged to have been involved in included breaking into a university building and threatening people with objects that could have been used as potential weapons.
But the deportation orders go further. They cite a broader list of alleged behaviours: chanting slogans such as “Free Gaza” and “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”, joining road blockades (a tactic frequently used by climate activists), and calling a police officer a “fascist”. Read closely, the real charge appears to be something more basic: protest itself.
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Name a more dynamic duo: German
being on the wrong side of history -
What mentality do you mean? The obedience? I feel like it’s more nuanced than that. Yes, following the rules everyone agreed on is lived in a rather inflexible way. If you think about it though, that’s democracy. It’s a commitment to the compromise. The unwritten contract between the majority and the minority. We recognize that the moment you start thinking "I don’t like this law, so I won’t follow it", democracy falls apart. People here want law and order even for laws they disagree with, because collectively that means that laws they agree with will also be followed by everyone.
There are limits though. While I agree that it’s scary to see the AFD become more and more popular, I disagree with your prediction. The idea of "never again" regarding the Holocaust guides every single part of public life. There are not many Germans who would say they are proud of their country. Only every two years, when Germany plays soccer in the international leagues, flying a German flag does not feel weird. Shame for your own country. That’s what Germans think everyone expects us to feel.
Strong military? We’re watching you. Your Great-Grandfather did what? Be sorry. Proud of Germany? How dare you.
The very first words of our constitution ("Human dignity is untouchable.") are a testament to the Holocaust. It’s an incredibly well chosen sentence that every single law is measured against. We know the entire world expects us to uphold this principle forever.
I am not arguing against the danger for democracy that the AFD poses. It’s very real. But in Germany we even have a law to actually make parties illegal that are against the constitution, most importantly the first sentence of it.
So, if Germans are obedient to the law, and the most important principle of our law makes anything even close to the Holocaust illegal, isn’t obedience a good thing then? The real question is, would Germans decide to just accept unconstitutional laws, or rather insist on upholding the constitution? I think the huge protests in the past months have made clear that many people are already standing up for the constitution. Not because they just follow rules blindly, but because they actually believe in the principles of compromise, democracy and dignity.
I'm sorry, but I used to think exactly like you many years ago.
Most German remembrance culture is overly superficial. Many German politicians hold straight up nazi views and they're still mingling around in the Bundestag. Some of them were caught on audio saying nazi shit. Others were involved with nazi organisations as youngsters. Many of them still attend "secret" nazi meetings and they're still mingling around with other politicians, even when it gets out to the press. Many of them hold up antisemitic, homophobic, transphobic, etc. views and they're still in positions of power. Most german billionaires have built their empires on top of the Holocaust. They're still around. No one dares to touch them. There's just some superficial "public outrage" from time to time and then the wheels of history just keep chugging on. Where's the remembrance culture for the millions of victims, most jewish, many queer, and political victims of the nazi regime?
Where was the remembrance culture for so many decades for the tens of thousands of queer victims of the Holocaust? Germany barely managed to pass a same-sex marriage bill a few years ago. Hell, even the US has done it before Germany did and they didn't have any concentration camps filled with homosexuals. So where's the remembrance culture?
Where's the human dignity when the greens and the social democrats are deporting people to Afghanistan, a country ruled by the taliban? Where's the human dignity when minorities are often the ones to get the short end of the stick at every interaction with state institutions? Where's the human dignity when minorities die in police custody and nothing ever comes out of it? Or when cops are involved en masse with nazi organisations? Where's the human dignity when people go out to protest and they get massively suppressed by police, often with liberal newspapers cheering it on?
It doesn't need to get to an industrialised killing of a group of people to be able to talk about "nazi like mentality".
Germany is more than happy to revoke citizenships nowadays for saying things the German state doesn't like. This is something unseen since nazi times. This is creating first and second class German citizens. Are you a so-called "bio deutsche"? Then you're free to do nazi shit, scream your hate-speech at immigrants, you'll mostly just get a fine and that's the end of the story. Are you a german with a second citizenship? Then go against the so called Staatsräson, criticise Israel publicly, and you'll have the entire might of the German state weighing down on you, having your citizenship revoked and ending up being deported. For a thought crime.
You either stay in line, or you're out of here, unworthy of being a citizen of this state just because you hold a different opinion.
And the thing about making parties illegal. That's hilarious. The AfD is saying shit nowadays that other parties ten/twenty years ago have gotten banned for. And they're doing it openly. And growing bolder, while the german society just stands there and looks.
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Which comments are you talking about? There's one comment that's deleted by a mod, and mostly everyone else is talking about Germany.
I've even gone to your instance to see what you see, and seems like you're complaining about something that's not present.
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Name a more dynamic duo: German
being on the wrong side of historyBro defends a terrorist organisation that wants to eradicate an entire religion and thinks he's on the right side.
I fucking can't lmao.
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You're being downvoted for your strawman framing. Recognising that Netanyahu's actions in Gaza (and farther, now) are unethical and illegal is absolutely not the same as calling for another Jewish genocide. Being pro-Palestine does not mean you're calling for the destruction of Israel or the murder of Jews.
There seems to be a fairly successful effort to frame any opposition of Israel's actions as antisemitic, which is a disgraceful attempt to use the suffering of Jewish ancestors as a shield against criticism today.
What? We're talking about the person from Germany chanting "From river to the sea" thingy, which was made illegal in Germany.
Of course what that war criminal is doing in Gaza is beyond unethical, but both my comment and article is about what happened in Germany
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Bro defends a terrorist organisation that wants to eradicate an entire religion and thinks he's on the right side.
I fucking can't lmao.
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What? We're talking about the person from Germany chanting "From river to the sea" thingy, which was made illegal in Germany.
Of course what that war criminal is doing in Gaza is beyond unethical, but both my comment and article is about what happened in Germany
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What mentality do you mean? The obedience? I feel like it’s more nuanced than that. Yes, following the rules everyone agreed on is lived in a rather inflexible way. If you think about it though, that’s democracy. It’s a commitment to the compromise. The unwritten contract between the majority and the minority. We recognize that the moment you start thinking "I don’t like this law, so I won’t follow it", democracy falls apart. People here want law and order even for laws they disagree with, because collectively that means that laws they agree with will also be followed by everyone.
There are limits though. While I agree that it’s scary to see the AFD become more and more popular, I disagree with your prediction. The idea of "never again" regarding the Holocaust guides every single part of public life. There are not many Germans who would say they are proud of their country. Only every two years, when Germany plays soccer in the international leagues, flying a German flag does not feel weird. Shame for your own country. That’s what Germans think everyone expects us to feel.
Strong military? We’re watching you. Your Great-Grandfather did what? Be sorry. Proud of Germany? How dare you.
The very first words of our constitution ("Human dignity is untouchable.") are a testament to the Holocaust. It’s an incredibly well chosen sentence that every single law is measured against. We know the entire world expects us to uphold this principle forever.
I am not arguing against the danger for democracy that the AFD poses. It’s very real. But in Germany we even have a law to actually make parties illegal that are against the constitution, most importantly the first sentence of it.
So, if Germans are obedient to the law, and the most important principle of our law makes anything even close to the Holocaust illegal, isn’t obedience a good thing then? The real question is, would Germans decide to just accept unconstitutional laws, or rather insist on upholding the constitution? I think the huge protests in the past months have made clear that many people are already standing up for the constitution. Not because they just follow rules blindly, but because they actually believe in the principles of compromise, democracy and dignity.
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I was responding to your original premise, that "Germans never stopped being Nazis" - and you know it. Don't try to feign outrage at being called out for condemning an entire country's people ("Germans") for the actions of a few (The Berlin Senate Administration.)
Do better, and perhaps people will earnestly engage with you for the better instead of just getting upset with you.
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That's a good point, because the protestors took a building by force and threatened staff and students with violence, while also smashing electronics into pieces.
I don't think protests should go as far as to instill fear into innocent citizens.
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You defend a genocidal state that is carpet bombing civilians and commiting war crime everyday God makes and you think you're on the right side?
Israel has pulled out of gaza by 2005, has provided gaza with free water and electricity and plenty of palestinians went to work in israel every day prior to october. So no, there is no genocide going on. You're just drinking the propaganda cool-aid like a clueless dumbass.
Also, support a russia and iran backed terrorist organisation that has been waging war against israel AND has been the aggressor in this conflict, killed israelis for no other reason than being jewish, digs up the water pipes so they can build rockets (and then complains about "OH NO THEY SHUT DOWN THE WATER SUPPLY :((((("), forced their own people to stay in buildings that are bombed (israel warns the population of gaza of incoming attacks) just so they can make a cool social media propaganda post.
So yes, I definitely think I'm on the right side. And you should just say that you hate jews and you want them dead instead of trying to talk around it. At least be honest.
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The insult wont sting, idiot. Guess what, saying jewish people shouldn't be privileged anymore than any other ethnicity isn't HaTinG jeWs.
When you have privilege, losing that privilege is perceived as persecution. We see a similar phenomenon with snowflake white males in the US spouting misinformation about what DEI is so that they can end it.
Fuck the genocidal state of Israel.
