Jellyfin over the internet
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I've also really struggled with Caddy despite everyone saying its so simple. I'm pretty new to all this, but I had better luck with Traefik - I now actually have a reverse proxy up and running correctly, which I haven't been able replicate with Caddy.
Traefik labels make sense to me in a way Caddy does not.
I appreciate this response. I'll try booting up traefik later.
I think Caddy just abstracts things to such a great degree that if you dont already know what it's supposed to do, it's harder to learn what you're doing with it. I'm sure plenty of others have stepped right up and loved the "two line config" without already understanding the basics, but it's not clicking for me.
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Nginx in front of it, open ports for https (and ssh), nothing more. Let's encrypt certificate and you're good to go.
Why would you need to expose SSH for everyday use? Or does Jellyfin require it to function?
Maybe leave that behind some VPN access.
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I see everyone in this thread recommending a VPN or reverse proxy for accessing Jellyfin from outside the LAN. While I generally agree, I don't see a realistic risk in exposing Jellyfin directly to the internet.
It supports HTTPS and certificates nowadays, so there’s no need for outside SSL termination anymore.(See Edit 2)In my setup, which I've been running for some time, I've port-forwarded only Jellyfin's HTTPS port to eliminate the possibility of someone ending up on pure HTTP and sending credentials unencrypted. I've also changed the Jellyfin's default port to a non-standard one to avoid basic port-scanning bots spamming login attempts. I fully understand that this falls into the security through obscurity category, but no harm in it either.
Anyone wanna yell at me for being an idiot and doing everything wrong? I'm genuinely curious, as the sentiment online seems to be that at least a reverse proxy is almost mandatory for this kind of setup, and I'm not entirely sure why.
Edit: Thank you everyone for your responses. While I don't agree with everything, the new insight is appreciated.
Edit 2: I've been informed that infact the support for HTTPS will be removed in a future version. From v10.11 release notes:
Deprecation Notice: Jellyfin’s internal handling of TLS/SSL certificates and configuration in the web server will be removed in a future version. No changes to the current system have been made in 10.11, however future versions will remove the current system and instead will provide advanced instructions to configure the Kestrel webserver directly for this relatively niche usecase. We strongly advise anyone using the current TLS options to use a Reverse Proxy for TLS termination instead if at all possible, as this provides a number of benefits
The issue is not encryption, it's the unauthenticated API. People can interact with your server without an account.
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I see everyone in this thread recommending a VPN or reverse proxy for accessing Jellyfin from outside the LAN. While I generally agree, I don't see a realistic risk in exposing Jellyfin directly to the internet.
It supports HTTPS and certificates nowadays, so there’s no need for outside SSL termination anymore.(See Edit 2)In my setup, which I've been running for some time, I've port-forwarded only Jellyfin's HTTPS port to eliminate the possibility of someone ending up on pure HTTP and sending credentials unencrypted. I've also changed the Jellyfin's default port to a non-standard one to avoid basic port-scanning bots spamming login attempts. I fully understand that this falls into the security through obscurity category, but no harm in it either.
Anyone wanna yell at me for being an idiot and doing everything wrong? I'm genuinely curious, as the sentiment online seems to be that at least a reverse proxy is almost mandatory for this kind of setup, and I'm not entirely sure why.
Edit: Thank you everyone for your responses. While I don't agree with everything, the new insight is appreciated.
Edit 2: I've been informed that infact the support for HTTPS will be removed in a future version. From v10.11 release notes:
Deprecation Notice: Jellyfin’s internal handling of TLS/SSL certificates and configuration in the web server will be removed in a future version. No changes to the current system have been made in 10.11, however future versions will remove the current system and instead will provide advanced instructions to configure the Kestrel webserver directly for this relatively niche usecase. We strongly advise anyone using the current TLS options to use a Reverse Proxy for TLS termination instead if at all possible, as this provides a number of benefits
I don't disagree, and I am one of the VPN advocates you mention. Generally there is no issue with exposing jellyfin via proxy to the internet.
The original question seemed to imply an over-secure solution so a lot of over-secure solutions exist. There is good cause to operate services, like jellyfin, via some permanent VPN.
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What’s your go too (secure) method for casting over the internet with a Jellyfin server.
I’m wondering what to use and I’m pretty beginner at this
Jellyfin through a traefik proxy, with a WAF as middleware and brute force login protected by fail2ban
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I see everyone in this thread recommending a VPN or reverse proxy for accessing Jellyfin from outside the LAN. While I generally agree, I don't see a realistic risk in exposing Jellyfin directly to the internet.
It supports HTTPS and certificates nowadays, so there’s no need for outside SSL termination anymore.(See Edit 2)In my setup, which I've been running for some time, I've port-forwarded only Jellyfin's HTTPS port to eliminate the possibility of someone ending up on pure HTTP and sending credentials unencrypted. I've also changed the Jellyfin's default port to a non-standard one to avoid basic port-scanning bots spamming login attempts. I fully understand that this falls into the security through obscurity category, but no harm in it either.
Anyone wanna yell at me for being an idiot and doing everything wrong? I'm genuinely curious, as the sentiment online seems to be that at least a reverse proxy is almost mandatory for this kind of setup, and I'm not entirely sure why.
Edit: Thank you everyone for your responses. While I don't agree with everything, the new insight is appreciated.
Edit 2: I've been informed that infact the support for HTTPS will be removed in a future version. From v10.11 release notes:
Deprecation Notice: Jellyfin’s internal handling of TLS/SSL certificates and configuration in the web server will be removed in a future version. No changes to the current system have been made in 10.11, however future versions will remove the current system and instead will provide advanced instructions to configure the Kestrel webserver directly for this relatively niche usecase. We strongly advise anyone using the current TLS options to use a Reverse Proxy for TLS termination instead if at all possible, as this provides a number of benefits
wrote last edited by [email protected]Jellyfin has a whole host of unresolved and unmitigated security vulnerabilities that make exposing it to the internet. A pretty poor choice.
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It feels like everything is a tradeoff and I think a setup like this reduces the complexity for people you share with.
If you added fail2ban along with alert email/notifications you could have a chance to react if you were ever targeted for a brute force attempt. Jellyfin docs talk about setting this up for anyone interested.
Blocking IP segments based on geography of countries you don't expect connections from adds the cost of a VPN for malicious actors in those areas.
Giving Jellyfin its own VLAN on your network could help limit exposure to your other services and devices if you experience a 0day or are otherwise compromised.
Fail2ban isn't going to help you when jellyfin has vulnerable endpoints that need no authentication at all.
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If your reverse proxy only acknowledges jellyfin exists if the hostname is correct, you won't get discovered by an IP scanner.
Mine's on jellyfin.[domain].com and you get a completely different page if you hit it by IP address.
If it does get found, there's also a fail2ban to rate-limit someone brute-forcing a login.
I've always exposed my home IP to the internet. Haven't had an issue in the last 15 years. I'm running about 10 public-facing services including NTP and SMTP.
Please to see: https://github.com/jellyfin/jellyfin/issues/5415
Someone doesn't necessarily have to brute Force a login if they know about pre-existing vulnerabilities, that may be exploited in unexpected ways
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Wireguard.
wrote last edited by [email protected]and a local reverse proxy that can route through wireguard when you want to watch on a smart tv.
its not as complicated as it sounds, it's just a wireguard client, and a reverse proxy like on the main server.
it can even be your laptop, without hdmi cables
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Why would you need to expose SSH for everyday use? Or does Jellyfin require it to function?
Maybe leave that behind some VPN access.
I agree, but SSH is more secure than Jellyfin. it shouldn't be exposed like that, others in the comments already pointed out why
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lemm.ee :'''(
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Change the port it runs on to be stupid high and they won't bother.
Yeah hey what's your IP address real quick? No reason
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What’s your go too (secure) method for casting over the internet with a Jellyfin server.
I’m wondering what to use and I’m pretty beginner at this
I'm just using caddy and a cheap $2 a year .top domain with a $4 a month VPS. Works for my users, I only have 3 users on my server.
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What’s your go too (secure) method for casting over the internet with a Jellyfin server.
I’m wondering what to use and I’m pretty beginner at this
OpenVPN into my router
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Yeah hey what's your IP address real quick? No reason
In 3 years I haven't had a single attempted connection that wasn't me. Once you get to the ephemeral ports nobody is scanning that high.
I'm not saying run no security or something. Just nobody wants to scan all 65k ports. They're looking for easy targets.
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What’s your go too (secure) method for casting over the internet with a Jellyfin server.
I’m wondering what to use and I’m pretty beginner at this
I just install tailscale at family houses. The limit is 100 machines.
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What’s your go too (secure) method for casting over the internet with a Jellyfin server.
I’m wondering what to use and I’m pretty beginner at this
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fail2ban with endlessh and abuseipdb as actions
Anything that's not specifically my username or git gets instantly blocked. Same with correct users but trying to use passwords or failing authentication in any way.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Youve minimized login risk, but not any 0 days or newly discovered vulnerabilites in your ssh server software. Its still best to not directly expose any ports you dont need to regularly interact with to the internet.
Also, Look into crowdsec as a fail2ban replacement. Its uses automatically crowdsourced info to pre block IPs. A bit more proactive compared to abuseipdb manual reporting.
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Fail2ban isn't going to help you when jellyfin has vulnerable endpoints that need no authentication at all.
Your comment got me looking through the jellyfin github issues. Are the bugs listed for unauthenticated endpoints what you're referencing? It looks like the 7 open mention being able to view information about the jellyfin instance or view the media itself. But this is just what was commented as possible, there could be more possibilities especially if combined with other vulnerabilities.
Now realizing there are parts of Jellyfin that are known to be accessible without authentication, I'm thinking Fail2ban is going to do less but unless there are ways to do injection with the known bugs/a new 0day they will still need to brute force a password to be able to make changes. I'm curious if there is anything I'm overlooking.
