Without mentioning smartphones or social media, what societal changes have you noticed over the course of your lifetime?
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Originally it was going to be "over the last twenty years" but I decided to be more flexible.
A lot of discussions about how society has changed or how the world is different always circle around to smartphones, social media, "no one talks to each other in person, they're on their phones always" and the like.
Outside of those topics, what else has changed, by your perception?
There's not as many people outside just....existing. I'm not that old but I remember just going outside and seeing people just not doing anything in particular everywhere, now it seems like everyone always has some place to rush to and no one is allowed to just exist in public places anymore. Maybe that also has something to do with my perspective shifting has I got older, but I still feel like it's true.
Also bugs. There are like NO fucking bugs anymore. Couple decades ago you could walk out and get sandblasted by a million different bugs and now everything just feels so fucking dead and sterile and depressed. It's like outside was replaced by a clinic and no one bothered to complain.
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Nah, its just that the stupid people got louder.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect
People got smarter overall.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Actually...
study - https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1718793115
CNN article talking about the study - https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/13/health/falling-iq-scores-study-intl/index.html
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There's not as many people outside just....existing. I'm not that old but I remember just going outside and seeing people just not doing anything in particular everywhere, now it seems like everyone always has some place to rush to and no one is allowed to just exist in public places anymore. Maybe that also has something to do with my perspective shifting has I got older, but I still feel like it's true.
Also bugs. There are like NO fucking bugs anymore. Couple decades ago you could walk out and get sandblasted by a million different bugs and now everything just feels so fucking dead and sterile and depressed. It's like outside was replaced by a clinic and no one bothered to complain.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]The bug thing seriously worries me
I remember so many more bugs as a child. I haven't needed mosquito spray in quite a while even while hiking
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Kids are still mean, they just use different words now
Yeah. The way bullying happens seems to have changed since my time.
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Originally it was going to be "over the last twenty years" but I decided to be more flexible.
A lot of discussions about how society has changed or how the world is different always circle around to smartphones, social media, "no one talks to each other in person, they're on their phones always" and the like.
Outside of those topics, what else has changed, by your perception?
wrote on last edited by [email protected]The world has less colour.
This isn't a dramatic "I'm depressed" post, though that is a factor. Nature is still nature-coloured, for one, and it still looks lovely.
I mean that like, you'd go outside and look at the cars and see a rainbow of colours. Now it's all black, silver, or white. You only see colorful cars if they are really old beat up rustbuckets or if they are brand new luxury vehicles used by super rich people.
Buildings too. Businesses and the buildings they set up shop in would be painted with garish, eye popping colour. Now everything trends towards landlord-beige.
Edit: And it should be noted, this happened for a reason, and I am aware of that reason, and that just makes me crankier.
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Actually...
study - https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1718793115
CNN article talking about the study - https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/13/health/falling-iq-scores-study-intl/index.html
Interesting it briefly went back up in the 90s for many before dropping again.
I imagine it was because of the transition from analog to digital in many things
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There's not as many people outside just....existing. I'm not that old but I remember just going outside and seeing people just not doing anything in particular everywhere, now it seems like everyone always has some place to rush to and no one is allowed to just exist in public places anymore. Maybe that also has something to do with my perspective shifting has I got older, but I still feel like it's true.
Also bugs. There are like NO fucking bugs anymore. Couple decades ago you could walk out and get sandblasted by a million different bugs and now everything just feels so fucking dead and sterile and depressed. It's like outside was replaced by a clinic and no one bothered to complain.
I live in a massive city and you’ll see loads of people just existing all the time.
I used to think the same about bugs too but I see shit loads when walking near trees and in the woods or down canals. Even my car still murders 100’s on a commute to work. Headed you don’t see them in city centre but that’s just hygiene is better now. IMO
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Domestic flights should basically not be a thing. Trains should be the default option if you don't have to cross an ocean.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Uhh, I'm gonna disagree with this. My family is 1700 miles away, without high speed rail I'm not doing that trip if there aren't flights. It's still a long ass trip by high speed rail. I might be willing to do that trip on regular rail if corporations didn't fuck it up for passengers and if it was direct, very few stops, and activities were available on board. That's a long ass time to be travelling on the ground.
For the Europeans out there, that's like going from Paris to Kyiv, and I'm not even crossing the whole country.
I do agree that there should be rail between large cities, distances under 400 miles should be able to be done by rail.
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Is 1776 an American thing? Because it does not seem to ring a bell for me...
Yeah, it's when Americans told Georgie boy to eat a dick.
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Absolutely. I didn't realize they did more of a story arc until I ended up seeing clips on yt. I definitely remember some of the lore episodes but I definitely wasn't smart enough to piece together any lore. I might have to suffer through the occasional "lol random" episodes just to see the lore through.
To be fair, the randomness is part of the lore too and has to do with the effects strong magic has on most users, and maybe a chaos god I think.
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From an artistic perspective, self-"publishing" (and I use quotations quite on purpose), changed writing as we know it and drastically dropped the average reading level of the public since now any chimp can bang their fist on a keyboard for an hour, upload it to Amazon and call themselves an "author" beside Stephen King or Umberto Eco.
It was always hailed as "the end of the so-called gatekeepers". Without stopping to realise that gatekeepers/publishers exist for a reason. So that the public zeitgeist isn't completely overrun with utter crap.
The response to having your short story or novel rejected used to be "okay...I'll learn, practice and get better for the next time." Now, it's "screw you...I'll pollute the zeitgeist with my 3rd grade level grammar nightmare with or without you and put it right up there on the shelf next to the actual writers."
Just imagine if a doctor flunked out of med-school, and instead of trying harder, just said "screw you, I'm going to open up my own surgery and put it right next door to you and there's nothing you can do to stop me...."
What a crazy stupid world we live in.
Writing is an art, anyone should be able to do it and judge for themselves whether their work is good enough to share, and just because it's been published doesn't mean you have to read it. I would rather have to actively look for a book to read next via reviews than have what's on the market mostly controlled by some businesses.
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The world has less colour.
This isn't a dramatic "I'm depressed" post, though that is a factor. Nature is still nature-coloured, for one, and it still looks lovely.
I mean that like, you'd go outside and look at the cars and see a rainbow of colours. Now it's all black, silver, or white. You only see colorful cars if they are really old beat up rustbuckets or if they are brand new luxury vehicles used by super rich people.
Buildings too. Businesses and the buildings they set up shop in would be painted with garish, eye popping colour. Now everything trends towards landlord-beige.
Edit: And it should be noted, this happened for a reason, and I am aware of that reason, and that just makes me crankier.
I've noticed that as well, most cities in the States are all different shades of brown and grey. It's kinda sad to see.
I always assumed that bland colors were easier to maintain and appealed to more people. But by God let's not have any color in the world because of resale value...
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I've noticed that as well, most cities in the States are all different shades of brown and grey. It's kinda sad to see.
I always assumed that bland colors were easier to maintain and appealed to more people. But by God let's not have any color in the world because of resale value...
wrote on last edited by [email protected]easier to maintain
The thing is
they're kinda not?
Grey("Silver") on cars kinda is in the sense that it "hides" dirt, but like, that particular shade of landlord beige they use on buildings? That becomes an ugly colour within weeks of exposure to the elements. And would require constant repainting to stay looking good.
It's all about that resale value and the fact that nowadays no one buys anything expecting to keep it for very long. So the less "personal" things are, the better to pass them along.
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Writing is an art, anyone should be able to do it and judge for themselves whether their work is good enough to share, and just because it's been published doesn't mean you have to read it. I would rather have to actively look for a book to read next via reviews than have what's on the market mostly controlled by some businesses.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Writing is so much more than just art though. Writing is also education. Writing is also a chronicle of culture and of history. Writing educates us about our past and our future and our present in a way that goes beyond statistics, dates, figures and memorised names. It, in a way that other art forms can only touch on, enriches our understanding of ourselves as a species and our place in the world
We know, at least in part, about Antebellum south, not just by reading history texts, but by reading Mark Twain. Our knowledge of the dustbowl is similarly enriched by Steinbeck. Thanks to Homer, Ovid, and others, Ancient Rome isn't just dusty stats and numbers, it's a living breathing history that you don't get from history books. Thanks to Orwell and Huxley we can look at our present world and see warnings rather than being completely blindsided by current events.
THAT is the power of writing.
And you're saying that this generation's contribution to that; this generation's contribution to the future's understanding of us is some asshole's Edward Cullen Slash fic?
That's ridiculous.
Am I elitist in this opinion? ABSOLUTELY. UNASHAMEDLY. It's too important NOT to be.
You want to write your own dumb-ass crap, that's perfectly fine. We ALL did that. We used to write it, share it among our friends and family, have a good laugh about it, and then put it in a drawer and never think about them again. I myself have a filing cabinet FULL of those things.
But what we didn't do (at least not in the mass numbers technology allows us to do now), is enshrine those horrible pieces of shit into the zeitgeist just because it's free to do so on fucking Amazon. We didn't pollute this generations contribution to the future with our own laugable crap just because we could.
Some people eventually got good enough that our work deserved to be included in that zeitgeist, even if it was just a couple of short stories making it past the so-called "gate-keepers". But more of us didn't, and never would.
We still write, because you are absolutely right in that a person who wants to write their own crap without bothering to learn, or get better, or even understand what makes good writing "good" in the first place, is welcome to do so. It's a very welcoming art form in that respect.
But leave what gets remembered by history to the people who are actually fucking good at it.
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Writing is so much more than just art though. Writing is also education. Writing is also a chronicle of culture and of history. Writing educates us about our past and our future and our present in a way that goes beyond statistics, dates, figures and memorised names. It, in a way that other art forms can only touch on, enriches our understanding of ourselves as a species and our place in the world
We know, at least in part, about Antebellum south, not just by reading history texts, but by reading Mark Twain. Our knowledge of the dustbowl is similarly enriched by Steinbeck. Thanks to Homer, Ovid, and others, Ancient Rome isn't just dusty stats and numbers, it's a living breathing history that you don't get from history books. Thanks to Orwell and Huxley we can look at our present world and see warnings rather than being completely blindsided by current events.
THAT is the power of writing.
And you're saying that this generation's contribution to that; this generation's contribution to the future's understanding of us is some asshole's Edward Cullen Slash fic?
That's ridiculous.
Am I elitist in this opinion? ABSOLUTELY. UNASHAMEDLY. It's too important NOT to be.
You want to write your own dumb-ass crap, that's perfectly fine. We ALL did that. We used to write it, share it among our friends and family, have a good laugh about it, and then put it in a drawer and never think about them again. I myself have a filing cabinet FULL of those things.
But what we didn't do (at least not in the mass numbers technology allows us to do now), is enshrine those horrible pieces of shit into the zeitgeist just because it's free to do so on fucking Amazon. We didn't pollute this generations contribution to the future with our own laugable crap just because we could.
Some people eventually got good enough that our work deserved to be included in that zeitgeist, even if it was just a couple of short stories making it past the so-called "gate-keepers". But more of us didn't, and never would.
We still write, because you are absolutely right in that a person who wants to write their own crap without bothering to learn, or get better, or even understand what makes good writing "good" in the first place, is welcome to do so. It's a very welcoming art form in that respect.
But leave what gets remembered by history to the people who are actually fucking good at it.
What's going to be remembered are the things that are truly worthwhile. I for one have no problem looking stupid in front of the other generations if it means there's more creativity and knowledge being spread around.
I believe your view on this matter is due largely in part to the fact that so much content nowadays is easily accessible and quality control doesn't happen behind closed doors nearly as much anymore. You are seeing with your own eyes a bunch of dumb shit that would usually get rejected by publishers instead of the general public. But if some are as bad as you say they are, then they'll get rejected all the same. You really think someone in 50 years will be reading some trashy hunger games ripoff? No, they'll be reading what's actually worthwhile. With freedom comes choice, and with choice comes confusion and the option to choose wrong. I still prefer freedom. If you want to protect the sanctity of writing or something like that, support authors who you think do good work, don't complain about the stupid ones.
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What's going to be remembered are the things that are truly worthwhile. I for one have no problem looking stupid in front of the other generations if it means there's more creativity and knowledge being spread around.
I believe your view on this matter is due largely in part to the fact that so much content nowadays is easily accessible and quality control doesn't happen behind closed doors nearly as much anymore. You are seeing with your own eyes a bunch of dumb shit that would usually get rejected by publishers instead of the general public. But if some are as bad as you say they are, then they'll get rejected all the same. You really think someone in 50 years will be reading some trashy hunger games ripoff? No, they'll be reading what's actually worthwhile. With freedom comes choice, and with choice comes confusion and the option to choose wrong. I still prefer freedom. If you want to protect the sanctity of writing or something like that, support authors who you think do good work, don't complain about the stupid ones.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]But if some are as bad as you say they are, then they’ll get rejected all the same
Oh I don't disagree with you on that.
However, because the barrier to entry is gone, and even financially there's no barrier to getting your work out there, even rejection isn't enough to curtail the slop.
First "self-published" novel got 1 review that literally called it "an atrocity worthy of the Nuremburg trials"? Who cares. Publish that sequel...and the sequel after that. There's literally no incentive to get better and no dis-incentive to prevent it no matter how crap the work might be.
The only real incentive anymore to stop publishing your glorious 12-volumes-and-counting epic story about a space wizard that has never actually sold a single copy is literally self-shame, which, in art circles, is not a common commodity.
So regardless of whether or not they are being read, or purchased, they're still just taking up more and more space. Adding more and more static to the crap that the future is going to have to sift through.
To me, anyway, it has less to do with gate-keeping and more to do with curation.
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But if some are as bad as you say they are, then they’ll get rejected all the same
Oh I don't disagree with you on that.
However, because the barrier to entry is gone, and even financially there's no barrier to getting your work out there, even rejection isn't enough to curtail the slop.
First "self-published" novel got 1 review that literally called it "an atrocity worthy of the Nuremburg trials"? Who cares. Publish that sequel...and the sequel after that. There's literally no incentive to get better and no dis-incentive to prevent it no matter how crap the work might be.
The only real incentive anymore to stop publishing your glorious 12-volumes-and-counting epic story about a space wizard that has never actually sold a single copy is literally self-shame, which, in art circles, is not a common commodity.
So regardless of whether or not they are being read, or purchased, they're still just taking up more and more space. Adding more and more static to the crap that the future is going to have to sift through.
To me, anyway, it has less to do with gate-keeping and more to do with curation.
Curation is more than possible no matter what volume of titles there are. Review sites, recommendations, etc. are good places to start. I would rather spend 10 minutes for every book I read verifying that other people enjoyed it than one single book anywhere be judged unfairly just because the author is bad at dealing with publishers, or the book contains content that publishers would see as obscene or offensive, and is thus cut off from ever being read by a stranger.
Books that very few people enjoy are also going to be a lot rarer (even in digital copies) than books that many people enjoy. The creme of the crop is always going to be made pretty obvious.
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Curation is more than possible no matter what volume of titles there are. Review sites, recommendations, etc. are good places to start. I would rather spend 10 minutes for every book I read verifying that other people enjoyed it than one single book anywhere be judged unfairly just because the author is bad at dealing with publishers, or the book contains content that publishers would see as obscene or offensive, and is thus cut off from ever being read by a stranger.
Books that very few people enjoy are also going to be a lot rarer (even in digital copies) than books that many people enjoy. The creme of the crop is always going to be made pretty obvious.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]I admire your optimism about cream rising to the top. But I just can't share it.
The average person isn't going to spend an hour digging through a literal trash-heap on Amazon in order to find something worth their time. They'll give up after five minutes of reading terrible review after terrible review and then go find something else to do with their time.
And thus the collective intelligence of humanity drops; not because they're actually reading all of this white noise of self-published crap. But because they're not reading at all because of the effort it takes to weed through it at the book store (digital or otherwise).
The best example I can give is how "Oprah's Book Club" (am I giving away how damn old I am yet?) got people reading. They read because they didn't have to go and find this stuff themselves. Someone curated it for them, told them "Hey...this is good".
If the average reader didn't have Oprah and had to dig through five thousand Amazon self-published "suggestions" before stumbling onto Toni Morrison or Push by Sapphire, they're quickly go doom scroll Facebook instead.
Like I said, I admire your optimism and a part of me wishes I could share it. But the idea that the lack of any accountability for self-"published" drivel completely muddies any real "discover-ability" of the actual good stuff is a hill that my elitist ass will happily die on.
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I admire your optimism about cream rising to the top. But I just can't share it.
The average person isn't going to spend an hour digging through a literal trash-heap on Amazon in order to find something worth their time. They'll give up after five minutes of reading terrible review after terrible review and then go find something else to do with their time.
And thus the collective intelligence of humanity drops; not because they're actually reading all of this white noise of self-published crap. But because they're not reading at all because of the effort it takes to weed through it at the book store (digital or otherwise).
The best example I can give is how "Oprah's Book Club" (am I giving away how damn old I am yet?) got people reading. They read because they didn't have to go and find this stuff themselves. Someone curated it for them, told them "Hey...this is good".
If the average reader didn't have Oprah and had to dig through five thousand Amazon self-published "suggestions" before stumbling onto Toni Morrison or Push by Sapphire, they're quickly go doom scroll Facebook instead.
Like I said, I admire your optimism and a part of me wishes I could share it. But the idea that the lack of any accountability for self-"published" drivel completely muddies any real "discover-ability" of the actual good stuff is a hill that my elitist ass will happily die on.
I know this will sound really condescending, but you can sort entries by highest ratings on any good website. You do not actually have to browse through every single book ever made.
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I know this will sound really condescending, but you can sort entries by highest ratings on any good website. You do not actually have to browse through every single book ever made.
No worries. I freely admit that my entire opinion on the subject of self-publishing is elitist and condescending as all hell. So I can put on my big-boy pants and take a bit of my own medicine back. No worries.
But no, I didn't take your response as condescending. You're right that a person can sort and filter. But a filter should almost be an option, not a necessity. I'll happily sort by genre, or page count, or yes...even ratings, to find something interesting to me.
But I shouldn't have to have a button that says "sort out any crap that hasn't even gone through a cursory elementary school grammar course". There's a line in the sand of what should and shouldn't be acceptable in any business environment that nominally wants people to spend money with them, and "making my customers weed out unprofessional garbage" should (IMO) be that line. Amazon, Kobo, or wherever, should at the bare minimum be telling people front and centre, "this is the minimum level of quality you can expect...feel free to sort however you like, but we at least guarantee that every book will meet a certain level of literacy."
