Russia must withdraw its troops to February 2022 line, Zelenskyy says
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132bn Euro divided by 450m Europeans == 910 Euro per capita. Not including already decided on money which has yet to be paid out, that'd nearly be double. Also not including refugee costs.
114bn Euro divided by 335m USians == 853 Euro per capita. Vastly exaggerated as they're valuing ancient Bradleys they would have to pay to decommission at the price of buying a new, modern one, same with old ammunition. I wouldn't go so far as to say that the US are saving money by giving Ukraine weapons, there's also shipping costs etc, but it's definitely exaggerated.
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You’re right, I misstepped by replying to my own post. Let’s chalk that up to a momentary lapse in focus rather than an intentional attempt at self-debate. But since we’re here, let’s address the substance of your reply.
The framing of Zelenskyy’s demands as “tactical nihilism” wasn’t meant to dismiss his position but to highlight the futility of relying on Trump’s erratic tendencies. You’re correct that Ukraine isn’t setting itself up for failure intentionally, but desperation often forces impossible choices.
As for the distinction between “Russia must withdraw” and “Russia can keep,” it’s a semantic shift that underscores how little leverage Ukraine has. They’re playing a losing hand with no good options, and the world’s apathy is the real indictment here.
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I don't think that Russia would be giving up Crimea in any case, regardless of who's in the Whitehouse. The Donbas is a different question, they probably would've been prepared to give them back in whole or in part in negotiations, but I don't think Crimea would've ever been up for negotiations.
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In pre-2022 positions, Crimea could be strangled; it's difficult to supply. Unfortunately, 2022 borders are only likely to be restored by negotiation, with US help unlikely, and not military success.
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fuck putin!
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this was was always going to end with Russia taking a large chunk of Ukraine. there was some collective delusion for a while that it wasn't because of strong state war propaganda
but Russia is always going to care more about Ukraine than the US. It's their neighbor who they have more or less controlled directly or indirectly for hundreds of years.
US support was always limited and self-interested. Just like every time US hypes up some international ally to inevitably discard them. Remember the Kurds? I'm guessing Taiwan is the next one going forward
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Yeah, all of those "disgruntled citizens" starting a coup in eastern Ukraine with russian equipment were later confirmed to be Russian mercenaries.
In the end it all comes down to this: Russia will attack any country that was allied with them, but now wants to move away from that.
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Also not including refugee costs.
To put that into perspective: Germany alone pays 5.5 - 6 billion € annually to support the 1.1 million Ukrainian refugees, that's additionally at least 65€ per capita in Germany
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Based on downvotes people don't like getting told it
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Zelenskyy knows that Europe does not have the money or political will to see this through if the US backs off. Realistically this is a discussion between the US and Russia, with Europe and Ukraine being a peanut gallery. Without Russia, no war. Without the US, no Ukraine.
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I think the downvotes were for the thinly veiled jab you threw in at the mods.
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Not according to Putin, who has stated multiple times that Ukraine isn't really a country and Russia owns it.
“Ukraine is not even a state! What is Ukraine? A part of its territory is [in] Eastern Europe, but a[nother] part, a considerable one, was a gift from us!” In his March 18, 2014 speech marking the annexation of Crimea, Putin declared that Russians and Ukrainians “are one people. Kiev is the mother of Russian cities. Ancient Rus’ is our common source and we cannot live without each other.” Since then, Putin has repeated similar claims on many occasions. As recently as February 2020, he once again stated in an interview that Ukrainians and Russians “are one and the same people”, and he insinuated that Ukrainian national identity had emerged as a product of foreign interference."
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I wish.
We would much prefer you walk into the woods and scream where nobody can hear you.
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Fair. Don't think highly of them but oh well
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They should have a plan E, which should actually be plan A, and dust off those old nuclear designs and build a bomb.
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Didn't take that long for Vietnam US relationship to settle down.
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I think the circumstances are different. The US didn't rape and pillage at the scale of Russia. And when something criminal was discovered, the rapists didn't receive medals on TV. And the Vietnamese haven't voted for an openly Pro-US government, to the extent of their voting ability.
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Haha. Are you serious?
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Happy to be proven wrong, but I'm afraid ad hominem is all you got.
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I suspect they don't go all in because, as I said, they want to keep the Kremlin engaged. If you look at the cost and amount of military equipment destroyed its staggering, and the Kremlin won't be able to replace it any time soon.
You misunderstood my comparison to Afghanistan, but no need to be rude about it. Russians are brainwashed, many actually believe "the West" wants to invade and destroy them, and they've been taught lies about their history of brutally oppressing people.
