I'm scared to post this anywhere because people will interpret it as me being misogynistic.
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Yes we talk about symbols, Germans, especially AFD (they are Nazis) and different interpretations of these symbols, I think of that argument. I don't know how you are thinking but usually things mentioned in a conversation inspire me.
Ah yes. The best you can do is a vague motion.
Let's talk about the women's issues that I can name on the top of my head that the feminist movement tries to tackle (and I obviously support):
- wage gap
- not being taken seriously by e.g. doctors
- me too
- domestic violence
- the whole double standard of how emotions get framed, women's emotions get framed as childish and overreactive.
- creating awareness for the mental workload of planing an household which often women have to handle.
- abortion rights
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I agree. It's kind of a tightrope these days. As a white, cis, hereto, middle-aged, male, I pretty much clock as the poster-child for privilege. I am palpably aware that crying loudly for any support might just come off as tasteless, or even insensitive in the wrong group.
Yet, a lot of our social ills these days look an awful lot like mental illness, which is poorly compensated for through evil, perpetrated by people that resemble this description. Zero social support means you just listen to Joe Rogan instead, while projecting trauma as hate.
This poster/meme might work better if it aimed for equality and that it doesn't exclude anyone. Or maybe if it had a quote from research or some person of note about the silent epidemic that is men's mental/social health issues.
Edit: some clarification.
I'm trying to argue that while I agree with the poster's message on its face, the delivery is problematic, if however subtly so.
The message on the poster aligns strongly with a privileged group ("men"). Therefore it's wise to use different or additional language to include/acknowledge less privileged groups, lest it be interpreted (or co-opted) as exclusive to that privileged group. It's hard to be succinct while doing this though.
To be clear, you'd see me side with movements like BLM over whitewashed nonsense like "all lives matter", any day of the week. I'm not suggesting we do away with targeted language on the basis of it being exclusionary. What I am saying is that one must be VERY careful to put things out there that can be utilized in an exclusionary way.
So can the meto movement include male victims now?
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wrote on last edited by [email protected]
What is the lie? Let me guess, I don't fit in your boxes! How rude of me!
I love how you think we are the same person and imply that he is dog whistling for the AFD. While on my account from 3 hours earlier, I have this comment. https://discuss.tchncs.de/comment/18782896
I mean, are we the same person and not supporting the afd? Or are we not the same person and I don't support the afd?
Or Maybe... I am planning the long con! How sneaky! Because obviously you can't be wrong./s
You can't name 1 male issue that general feminist movement is actively trying to tackle but they are fighting for it. You seem to believe that a person can't support a movement and disagree with the behavior of the uninformed masses of the same movement. You seem to believe that a symbol can only mean 1 thing. And undoubtedly, you are obviously correct about everything. /s
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He's a German and literally calling the vast majority of feminists sexists, dip shit.
Also, we know "he" is "you" and you're too lazy to make your alts on different instances, which makes it easy to notice when you forget to swap your sockpuppets.
Kindly follow your leader, thanks.
Go be an edgelord on Reddit, we don't need your toxicity on Lemmy
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That's why I'm a feminist. They understand everyone suffers under the patriarchy. Especially men who are forbidden to show emotion.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]I don't like being associated with feminism for a single reason - not everyone agrees that both women and men suffer, and the blame is often shifted on men as "carriers of patriarchy". Besides, it is originally about women fighting for their rights, not men, and at any point in time women can note that it's for the women and about women, effectively shaking off the very men who promoted it - and to some degree, they will be correct.
We can do better by building a wider antisexist community. At the end of the day, all we want, as long as we act in good faith, is for everyone to be equal in their rights and opportunities. Women face sexism. Men face sexism. Some of it stems from patriarchy, some of it might come from other angles. We should come together not under the banner of feminism, not under the banner of masculism, but from the neutral ground if we ever hope to achieve a society that treats men and women as equals.
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I don't like being associated with feminism for a single reason - not everyone agrees that both women and men suffer, and the blame is often shifted on men as "carriers of patriarchy". Besides, it is originally about women fighting for their rights, not men, and at any point in time women can note that it's for the women and about women, effectively shaking off the very men who promoted it - and to some degree, they will be correct.
We can do better by building a wider antisexist community. At the end of the day, all we want, as long as we act in good faith, is for everyone to be equal in their rights and opportunities. Women face sexism. Men face sexism. Some of it stems from patriarchy, some of it might come from other angles. We should come together not under the banner of feminism, not under the banner of masculism, but from the neutral ground if we ever hope to achieve a society that treats men and women as equals.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]I don’t like being associated with anti-racism for a single reason - not everyone agrees that both black and white people suffer, and the blame is often shifted on white people as “carriers of systemic racism”. Besides, it is originally about black people fighting for their rights, not white people, and at any point in time black people can note that it’s for and about black people, effectively shaking off the very white people who promoted it - and to some degree, they will be correct.
We can do better by building a wider anti-racist community. At the end of the day, all we want, as long as we act in good faith, is for everyone to be equal in their rights and opportunities. Black people face racism. White people face racism. Some of it stems from systemic racism, some of it might come from other angles. We should come together not under the banner of Black Lives Matter, not under the banner of White Lives Matter, but from the neutral ground if we ever hope to achieve a society that treats #AllLives as equals.
This is how these comments come across to me.
There’s a power imbalance. Feminism is about bringing women up and redistributing the power.
Men should be able to talk about their issues. And I feel like they usually are. It’s not a problem.
It’s a problem when it’s done to hijack a conversation about women. Or when it’s done without awareness of the history of the power imbalance.
A lot of it isn’t to be taken personally and if it is, I think that says something about you. When I hear blame and anger towards privileged groups that I’m a part of, even if I suffer too, my gut reaction is never “but…”
I understand that these movements are reactions to the power, the history, and the general picture.
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I don’t like being associated with anti-racism for a single reason - not everyone agrees that both black and white people suffer, and the blame is often shifted on white people as “carriers of systemic racism”. Besides, it is originally about black people fighting for their rights, not white people, and at any point in time black people can note that it’s for and about black people, effectively shaking off the very white people who promoted it - and to some degree, they will be correct.
We can do better by building a wider anti-racist community. At the end of the day, all we want, as long as we act in good faith, is for everyone to be equal in their rights and opportunities. Black people face racism. White people face racism. Some of it stems from systemic racism, some of it might come from other angles. We should come together not under the banner of Black Lives Matter, not under the banner of White Lives Matter, but from the neutral ground if we ever hope to achieve a society that treats #AllLives as equals.
This is how these comments come across to me.
There’s a power imbalance. Feminism is about bringing women up and redistributing the power.
Men should be able to talk about their issues. And I feel like they usually are. It’s not a problem.
It’s a problem when it’s done to hijack a conversation about women. Or when it’s done without awareness of the history of the power imbalance.
A lot of it isn’t to be taken personally and if it is, I think that says something about you. When I hear blame and anger towards privileged groups that I’m a part of, even if I suffer too, my gut reaction is never “but…”
I understand that these movements are reactions to the power, the history, and the general picture.
Either you're a feminist or you're a misogynist, it's simple. -
Technically, everyone that doesn't identify as "men". But it's done in the abstract, negative space of the message by not saying it. Subtle, but without clarifying things, it's left open to this interpretation.
It isn't inclusive of everyone because it is about a specific group. I'm getting 'all lives matter' vibes from your comment.
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I've very rarely see that from feminist circles. And even then it feels like we can only have the emotions they want us to have and not the ones we do have.
I've had the same experience. Or if you do hear about it, it's reluctant and only in relation to how it affects women.
I'm fine with women having their own advocacy group, I don't think they're equipped to take on men too.
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I don’t like being associated with anti-racism for a single reason - not everyone agrees that both black and white people suffer, and the blame is often shifted on white people as “carriers of systemic racism”. Besides, it is originally about black people fighting for their rights, not white people, and at any point in time black people can note that it’s for and about black people, effectively shaking off the very white people who promoted it - and to some degree, they will be correct.
We can do better by building a wider anti-racist community. At the end of the day, all we want, as long as we act in good faith, is for everyone to be equal in their rights and opportunities. Black people face racism. White people face racism. Some of it stems from systemic racism, some of it might come from other angles. We should come together not under the banner of Black Lives Matter, not under the banner of White Lives Matter, but from the neutral ground if we ever hope to achieve a society that treats #AllLives as equals.
This is how these comments come across to me.
There’s a power imbalance. Feminism is about bringing women up and redistributing the power.
Men should be able to talk about their issues. And I feel like they usually are. It’s not a problem.
It’s a problem when it’s done to hijack a conversation about women. Or when it’s done without awareness of the history of the power imbalance.
A lot of it isn’t to be taken personally and if it is, I think that says something about you. When I hear blame and anger towards privileged groups that I’m a part of, even if I suffer too, my gut reaction is never “but…”
I understand that these movements are reactions to the power, the history, and the general picture.
It’s a problem when it’s done to hijack a conversation about women.
You're talking about feminism in a thread started about men's mental health.
Dearest Kettle,
I write to you on this auspicious occasion to bring into your awareness a matter which has consumed my attention as of late. It seems you bear a certain patina of the very darkest of colors, one might even go so far as to call you "black."
Eternally yours,
Pot
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It’s a problem when it’s done to hijack a conversation about women.
You're talking about feminism in a thread started about men's mental health.
Dearest Kettle,
I write to you on this auspicious occasion to bring into your awareness a matter which has consumed my attention as of late. It seems you bear a certain patina of the very darkest of colors, one might even go so far as to call you "black."
Eternally yours,
Pot
I’m replying to a comment about feminism, moron.
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I’m replying to a comment about feminism, moron.
And the entire topic of feminism was brought up to hijack a conversation about men. Moron.
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I've had the same experience. Or if you do hear about it, it's reluctant and only in relation to how it affects women.
I'm fine with women having their own advocacy group, I don't think they're equipped to take on men too.
Buddy they oppose & damage & hijack men's issues
(E.g: Conscription & False allegations) -
And the entire topic of feminism was brought up to hijack a conversation about men. Moron.
The comment thread I replied to didn’t start with feminism but with fears of being seen as a misogynist when bringing up OP’s points. This naturally led to a conversation about feminism being a movement that aims to abolish this kind of thing.
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I don’t like being associated with anti-racism for a single reason - not everyone agrees that both black and white people suffer, and the blame is often shifted on white people as “carriers of systemic racism”. Besides, it is originally about black people fighting for their rights, not white people, and at any point in time black people can note that it’s for and about black people, effectively shaking off the very white people who promoted it - and to some degree, they will be correct.
We can do better by building a wider anti-racist community. At the end of the day, all we want, as long as we act in good faith, is for everyone to be equal in their rights and opportunities. Black people face racism. White people face racism. Some of it stems from systemic racism, some of it might come from other angles. We should come together not under the banner of Black Lives Matter, not under the banner of White Lives Matter, but from the neutral ground if we ever hope to achieve a society that treats #AllLives as equals.
This is how these comments come across to me.
There’s a power imbalance. Feminism is about bringing women up and redistributing the power.
Men should be able to talk about their issues. And I feel like they usually are. It’s not a problem.
It’s a problem when it’s done to hijack a conversation about women. Or when it’s done without awareness of the history of the power imbalance.
A lot of it isn’t to be taken personally and if it is, I think that says something about you. When I hear blame and anger towards privileged groups that I’m a part of, even if I suffer too, my gut reaction is never “but…”
I understand that these movements are reactions to the power, the history, and the general picture.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]The problem is in your first remake of the quote.
I don't like being associated with anti-racism...
I support antisexism. You just equated feminism and antisexism again, while I do my best to highlight the distinction between them, as the latter is a bigger category than the former.
Nothing wrong with feminism as a fight for women's rights, but looking at mens' problems through the prism of feminism is the same as looking at racism against whites through the prism of BLM, or apples through bananas. That's simply the wrong tool, and I suggest having the swiss knife to have them all. Also, the issue of racism is much more one-sided (at least on the West) compared to sexism, so it's not an overly accurate prism to watch through.
There is feminism - about women. There is masculism (which is currently heavily discredited by patriarchal shitheads, but originally comes from the same place of equality as feminism) - about men. There are also nonbinaries fighting for their place in the world. And there is antisexism combining them all.
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I've had the same experience. Or if you do hear about it, it's reluctant and only in relation to how it affects women.
I'm fine with women having their own advocacy group, I don't think they're equipped to take on men too.
And whenever there is a push for a male advocacy group it gets labeled as some incel shit. Which attracts alt right types and suddenly it's yet another pro republican group.
Men can't have advocacy groups.
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The comment thread I replied to didn’t start with feminism but with fears of being seen as a misogynist when bringing up OP’s points. This naturally led to a conversation about feminism being a movement that aims to abolish this kind of thing.
Feminism is anti-male. That's all it is.
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Either you're a feminist or you're a misogynist, it's simple.wrote on last edited by [email protected]I support feminist ideas, but don't find them fitting to look at mens' problems.
You randomly slap misogynist labels left and right because you got so rigid you cannot even start to comprehend any view more nuanced than "feminism will save us all!"
Nothing wrong with feminism when it comes to women and their issues, by the way.
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The problem is in your first remake of the quote.
I don't like being associated with anti-racism...
I support antisexism. You just equated feminism and antisexism again, while I do my best to highlight the distinction between them, as the latter is a bigger category than the former.
Nothing wrong with feminism as a fight for women's rights, but looking at mens' problems through the prism of feminism is the same as looking at racism against whites through the prism of BLM, or apples through bananas. That's simply the wrong tool, and I suggest having the swiss knife to have them all. Also, the issue of racism is much more one-sided (at least on the West) compared to sexism, so it's not an overly accurate prism to watch through.
There is feminism - about women. There is masculism (which is currently heavily discredited by patriarchal shitheads, but originally comes from the same place of equality as feminism) - about men. There are also nonbinaries fighting for their place in the world. And there is antisexism combining them all.
Source? You’re speaking with a lot of authority here and I’m not sure you fully know what you’re talking about. What you seem to be calling anti-sexism is often called intersectional feminism.
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I'm scared to post this anywhere because people will interpret it as me being misogynistic. And that, IMO, is the biggest problem that men face. We're not allowed by society to be victims.
Stay strong, brother. You are not alone
