Jellyfin over the internet
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Couple questions here.
What is a honeypot? I've only heard it in terms of piracy.
Also, what steps can someone take to reinforce this attack layer? You have an infograph or something people can google search their way through?
wrote last edited by [email protected]A honeypot is something that is intentionally left available, to alert you when it gets hit. In practice, they’re just a tool to tell security specialists when they need to start worrying; They wouldn’t be used by the average user at all.
The goal is to build your security like layers, and ideally have all of your services behind the secure walls. Between these layers, you have honeypots. If someone gets through your first layer of security but hits the honeypot, you know someone is sniffing around, or maybe has an exploit for your outer layer that you need to research. If they get through the second layer and hit your second honeypot, you know that someone is specifically targeting you (instead of simply running automated scans) and you need to pay closer attention. Etc…
Reinforcing the attack layer comes in two main forms, which work in tandem: Strengthening the actual layer, and reducing attack vectors. The first is focused on using strong passwords, keeping systems up to date, running something like Fail2Ban for services that are exposed, etc… The goal is for each layer of security to be robust, to reduce the chances of a bot attack actually working. Bots will simply sniff around and automatically throw shit at the wall to see if anything sticks.
The second part is focused on identifying and mitigating attack vectors. Essentially reducing the amount of holes in the wall. It doesn’t matter how strong the wall is if it’s full of holes for your server’s various services. The goal is typically to have each layer be as solid as possible, and grant access to the layers below it. So for instance, running a VPN. The VPN gets you access to the network, without exposing services externally. In order to access your services, they need to get through the VPN first, making the VPN the primary attack vector. So you can focus on ensuring that the VPN is secure, instead of trying to spread your focus amongst a dozen different services. If it’s exposed to the open internet, it is a new potential attack vector; The strength of the wall doesn’t actually matter, if one of those services has an exploit that someone can use to get inside your network.
Home users really only need to worry about things like compromised services, but corporate security specialists also focus on things like someone talking their way past the receptionist and into the server room, USB sticks getting “lost” around the building and plugged into random machines by curious employees, etc… All of these are attack vectors, even if they’re not digital. If you have three or four layers of security in a corporate setting and your third or fourth honeypot gets hit, you potentially have some corporate spy wrist-deep in your server room.
For an easy example, imagine having a default password on a service, and then exposing it to the internet via port forwarding. It doesn’t matter how strong your firewall is anymore. The bot will simply sniff the service’s port, try the default credentials, and now it has control of that service.
The better way to do it would be to reduce your attack vectors at each layer; Require the VPN to access the network via a secure connection, then have a strong password on the service so it can’t easily be compromised.
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Can "your apps" access it when their device isn't on your home LAN?
That was the problem, I couldn't access anything away from my LAN. I finally figured it out though. I'm using Pangolin to access my services outside of my LAN and by default it adds a SSO option. Once I turned that off, my iPhone app was able to find my server through my domain name just fine. Thanks!
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That was the problem, I couldn't access anything away from my LAN. I finally figured it out though. I'm using Pangolin to access my services outside of my LAN and by default it adds a SSO option. Once I turned that off, my iPhone app was able to find my server through my domain name just fine. Thanks!
Do note that without that layer you were using Pangolin for, your system might be compromised by a vulnerability in Jellyfin's server or a brute force attack on your Jellyfin admin account.
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Do note that without that layer you were using Pangolin for, your system might be compromised by a vulnerability in Jellyfin's server or a brute force attack on your Jellyfin admin account.
Understood. I set a strong password and a max login attempt on my account.
If someone does get into my account, wouldn’t they only be able to watch what I have on my server anyway?
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Understood. I set a strong password and a max login attempt on my account.
If someone does get into my account, wouldn’t they only be able to watch what I have on my server anyway?
if they got in...
You're trusting Jellyfin to not have some form of privilege escalation attack available. I'm not saying they do have one or that anyone's exploiting it in the field, but yeah. Also if your Jellyfin admin account is allowed to download subtitles to content folders, a "just fuck shit up" style vandal-hacker could delete your media probably. If you mount the media read-only that wouldn't be a concern.
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And this is the start of the longest crypto nerd fight I've seen on Lemmy. Well done, people!
Not so much a fight as an exercise in futility lol
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if they got in...
You're trusting Jellyfin to not have some form of privilege escalation attack available. I'm not saying they do have one or that anyone's exploiting it in the field, but yeah. Also if your Jellyfin admin account is allowed to download subtitles to content folders, a "just fuck shit up" style vandal-hacker could delete your media probably. If you mount the media read-only that wouldn't be a concern.
Gotcha. Jellyfin is my backup server behind plex so I’ll just keep it shut off unless I’m using it and set all security things I can within jellyfin when I am using it.
How likely is it someone even finds my server and domain?
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Gotcha. Jellyfin is my backup server behind plex so I’ll just keep it shut off unless I’m using it and set all security things I can within jellyfin when I am using it.
How likely is it someone even finds my server and domain?
you're not particularly worried about "someone", you're worried about bots that are scanning IP ranges and especially default ports. A lot of people will install a program, not really understand what it does, and forward a port because the setup told them to. Then proceed to never update the program (or it's a poorly secured program in the first place).
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Do you at least have it on a VLAN?
wrote last edited by [email protected]I dunno. It’s plugged in directly to the modem/router provided by my ISP while my wifi is provided by a separate mesh setup, which is also plugged in to the modem/router
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I dunno. It’s plugged in directly to the modem/router provided by my ISP while my wifi is provided by a separate mesh setup, which is also plugged in to the modem/router
️Yeah, you’ll definitely want to make sure that computer is isolated. It doesn’t sound like it’s currently on a VLAN. The real danger isn’t just someone messing up that one machine, once they’re in, they’re behind your firewall and can potentially access anything else on your network. Smart home devices are often the next targets, things like light bulbs, security cameras, and especially Windows computers, which are usually easy to compromise if they’re on the same network.
You might be wondering, “How likely is that?” Honestly, very likely. Back when my website was online, it would get hit by hackers, mostly script kiddies, several times an hour.
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Specifically these issues: https://github.com/jellyfin/jellyfin/issues/5415
The big one is that video/audio playing endpoints can be used without authentication. However, you have to guess a UUID. If Jellyfin is using UUIDv4 (fully random), then this shouldn't be an issue; the search space is too big. However, many of the other types of UUIDs could hypothetically be enumerated through brute force. I'm not sure what Jellyfin uses for UUIDs.
They don't. Ids in Jellyfin are based on the path of the file, so easily guessable with a sufficiently large rainbow table
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You can also use a router that can run wireguard/openvpn and have that run the tunnel back to home for you. I've got a portable GL-Inet router with OpenWRT that I use for this when I'm on the road
or that yes, but I often don't want to give the whole network access to my home network for security reasons, so that's something to consider
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How would you do this off network?
what do you mean by off network? on the wifi of a different home's network, that has internet access?
the wireguard client on your laptop is supposed to give the laptop (and the laptop only) access to your home network, and the reverse proxy running on the laptop is supposed to give local devices access to services at home selectively, by listening on port 443 on the local network, and processing requests to services that you defined, by forwarding them through the vpn tunnel.
this requires that a machine at home runs a wireguard server, and that its port is forwarded in your router -
Even more secure is having a VPS and self hosting Heascale, even better is Wireguard
I'm trying to move away from needing a VPN to connect to make it simpler for less technically inclined family members
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Not so much a fight as an exercise in futility lol
Well, I might as well put a dog in the fight. I'm considering my final, actually secure deployment of nextcloud.
This discussion has convinced me that a vpn is the only answer.
And almost everyone says wireguard.K. Thats what I will build.
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Well, I might as well put a dog in the fight. I'm considering my final, actually secure deployment of nextcloud.
This discussion has convinced me that a vpn is the only answer.
And almost everyone says wireguard.K. Thats what I will build.
It’s not the only answer, but it’s the one that will get you the most secure with the least amount of effort.
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I'm trying to move away from needing a VPN to connect to make it simpler for less technically inclined family members
Usually just needs to be set up once. A small price to pay for security.
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It’s not the only answer, but it’s the one that will get you the most secure with the least amount of effort.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Ya. I understand VPN. I do enterprise IT stuff. The things I build assume a secure environment. VPN is step one.
Nailing down a web server on the internet tho ... there's so many ways to attack. There's so many things to secure. And its a bit complex to manage all that.
The nextcloud site covers hardening the server, but doesn't even mention vpn.
I've been watching threads like this. I'm pretty convinced vpn is the answer. -
Ya. I understand VPN. I do enterprise IT stuff. The things I build assume a secure environment. VPN is step one.
Nailing down a web server on the internet tho ... there's so many ways to attack. There's so many things to secure. And its a bit complex to manage all that.
The nextcloud site covers hardening the server, but doesn't even mention vpn.
I've been watching threads like this. I'm pretty convinced vpn is the answer.Yeah Nextcloud won’t mention VPN for hardening because the assumption is you want it publicly accessible.
I have a number of things publicly accessible and there are a number of things I do to secure them. crowdsec monitoring and blocking, a reverse proxy with OIDC for authentication, a WAF in front of it all. But those are only for the things I have exposed because I want other people to use them. If it’s something just for me, I don’t bother with all that and just access it via VPN.
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Someone mentioned above that cloudflare will ban you for streaming through their tunnel. Just be warned.
yeah it’s in the terms of service but my usage will be so small it’s not even going to register on their charts so i’m happy with the risk.
