Is censorship ok if the person you're censoring is wrong?
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What is with these vague, open-ended questions with no effort put in to try to provide any detail or literally anything to engage with?
Now instead of answering your question I have to ask a bunch of questions myself:
- How, exactly, are they wrong?
- Are they merely incorrect?
- Are they actively spreading disinformation?
- Is their speech causing harm? If so what kind?
- Is it direct and measurable like hate-speech or incitements to violence?
- Or is it something vague and nebulous like 'decadence' or 'societal harm'?
- Who decided that they are wrong?
- Experts?
- Moderation teams?
- Bureaucrats?
- And most importantly, who is doing the censoring?
- In what form?
- With what authority?
- In what medium?
- For what purpose (actual, not stated)?
Context matters, friend. Please provide some.
No matter what authority, rationale or interpretation cited, it comes to the judgment of the person actually pulling the trigger.
But this is obvious.
- How, exactly, are they wrong?
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If it's impossible to censor people, you would hardly have a strong prosecution arguing you should have done something impossible.
That's a good point.
Prosecution might then assert that it was your responsibility to employ a system that DID allow for censorship. But I hate that one.
Another option would be to refer the offender to the LEOs. Just shift responsibility. Heck, it could be said that you're doing the LEOs a service. I like that one.
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That's a good point.
Prosecution might then assert that it was your responsibility to employ a system that DID allow for censorship. But I hate that one.
Another option would be to refer the offender to the LEOs. Just shift responsibility. Heck, it could be said that you're doing the LEOs a service. I like that one.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]::: spoiler spoiler
askldjfals;jflsad;
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::: spoiler spoiler
askldjfals;jflsad;
:::Refer to the replies of others here who are having less difficulty than you. Use the power of Lemmy.
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I believe in democracy as an ideal but I don't see how that would work. Oh well.
Well we have this upvoting/downvoting paradigm. Simple and popular. Maybe that could be developed further.
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::: spoiler spoiler
askldjfals;jflsad;
:::You got a better one?
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"Wrong" can mean so many things.
Removing misinformation isn't censorship, for example. Similar with removing off-topic threads or comments.
Removing illegal content is censorship if the law is unjust (eg. political dissent restrictions) but not if the law is just (eg. CSAM removal).
Removing immoral content is way dicier, because morality is not fully mapped, and what one person thinks is immoral might seem perfectly moral to another (eg. blasphemy or profane language). I personally would not removed content I found immoral unless it violated community standards, and would consider such removals an overreach but not censorship unless it was selectively targeted at an individual or group.
I guess by my lights to be censorship it has to be:
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subjective
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unjust
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systematic
Removing something objectively incorrect or in the wrong place is not censorship. Removing something justly proscribed is not censorship.
Removing a thread when one viewpoint or group posts about it but not when another posts about it IS censorship.
We're talking about removing stuff at the judgment of the presiding authority.
Rationale is infinitely flexible. It will never be science. So it cannot be relied upon.
So, ideals aside, consider it in that light. Be realistic.
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Well now we are - discussing a much more specific scenario and not just any scenario where someone is seen as wrong by someone else as in the original question.
Anyway, the owner of any private publishing platform must be allowed to choose what they publish or rules for publishing. If it is “censorship” that publishers cannot be forced by any and all to publish illegal content then yeah, that form of “censorship” is entirely justifiable.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Yeah, but once the power is there it will be used for less legit reasons, like removing "saying nice stuff about the wrong politician".
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Refer to the replies of others here who are having less difficulty than you. Use the power of Lemmy.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]::: spoiler spoiler
askldjfals;jflsad;
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You got a better one?
wrote on last edited by [email protected]::: spoiler spoiler
askldjfals;jflsad;
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::: spoiler spoiler
askldjfals;jflsad;
:::Don't understand >> troll.
That's efficient
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In Reddit and Lemmy the names of the censors are hidden, and the debate is hidden too.
I don't know how they do it on X and Facebook.
If a post or comment is removed on lemmy you can see the removed content and who removed it in the modlog
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We're talking about removing stuff at the judgment of the presiding authority.
Rationale is infinitely flexible. It will never be science. So it cannot be relied upon.
So, ideals aside, consider it in that light. Be realistic.
I did consider it in that light. This analysis is from the perspective of an observer, not the presiding body. Since the presiding body's reasoning cannot be known, we observers just look for patterns of removal to determine whether censorship is occurring. These are the pattern-markers I look for.
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It's not about right or wrong.
Censorship is okay if the content harms those who hear it. You censor a naked man jacking off in a kindergarden because it will traumatize the children (and possibly more people).
If someone consistently spreads misinformation or disinformation that sounds convincing and will likely harm people (think donald trump and alice weidel) you need to censor them to protect those who are unable to understand the vileness of their agenda.
Equally, you need to educate both children to not go home with the nice man and the public to not listen to fascists and neoliberals.
I think this is where my belief ends up as well. In an ideal world we have great debates and good overcomes evil, but I think most of us sooner or later come to a point where it is hard to care. Protecting the vulnerable seems to be more important than 100% freedom of speech and acts.
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Don't understand >> troll.
That's efficient
wrote on last edited by [email protected]::: spoiler spoiler
askldjfals;jflsad;
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If a post or comment is removed on lemmy you can see the removed content and who removed it in the modlog
You can see the reason cited.
In almost all cases you cannot see who did it.
Any conversation about it is, as a rule, private
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I did consider it in that light. This analysis is from the perspective of an observer, not the presiding body. Since the presiding body's reasoning cannot be known, we observers just look for patterns of removal to determine whether censorship is occurring. These are the pattern-markers I look for.
Ha ha. What is the plan of this invisible deity?
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Ha ha. What is the plan of this invisible deity?
Invisible deity? The observers are you and me.
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some debates are harmful. fox news often has "debates" which are staged performances. the debate isn't important, the honesty is.
See: "openly"
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Maybe the power to censor could be kept out of the hands of individuals. Make it a democratic decision.
Not sure a tyranny of the masses is a good idea, but maybe some community sourced guidelines on what works... But a lot of online communities are already based off of what works for communities, even if enforcement can be flawed.
