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  3. why are website language switchers in the current language?

why are website language switchers in the current language?

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  • W [email protected]

    Which flag do we use for English?

    I won't allow the stars and stripes

    D This user is from outside of this forum
    D This user is from outside of this forum
    [email protected]
    wrote on last edited by
    #115

    Zimbabwe obviously
    šŸ‡æšŸ‡² ah fuck

    1 Reply Last reply
    1
    • S [email protected]

      Nobody's arguing that it's the right way to do it, we're just saying that breaking out words like "dumb" after the fact from the comfort of our keyboards, over problems that aren't necessarily obvious at development time if you've not had i18n training, is kind of harsh.

      R This user is from outside of this forum
      R This user is from outside of this forum
      [email protected]
      wrote on last edited by
      #116

      The only thing I know about i18n is that it is an annoying shitload of language installer packages for both firefox and libreoffice ^^
      That said, however, how you need training for a localization package to provide a language menu(!) - not the translations, mind you - in English, is beyond me. I can't follow the point you seem to be trying to make.
      There's no reason to not hardcode (in English) a language selection menu, and then display the list of available site languages (and these should be a country flag with the name of language next to it in what may be the language itself)

      S E 2 Replies Last reply
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      • L [email protected]

        šŸ“ó §ó ¢ó „ó ®ó §ó æ

        buboscandiacus@mander.xyzB This user is from outside of this forum
        buboscandiacus@mander.xyzB This user is from outside of this forum
        [email protected]
        wrote on last edited by
        #117

        Best answer up to this point

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        • W [email protected]

          Which flag do we use for English?

          I won't allow the stars and stripes

          S This user is from outside of this forum
          S This user is from outside of this forum
          [email protected]
          wrote on last edited by
          #118

          Every time I make a tool like this, I try to wind up any Americans in the company by putting the US flag as English (simplified) and the Union Jack as English

          It's a fun back and forth we have switching it between the two (inevitably someone makes a PR to put it back, and we go on)

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          • L [email protected]

            Out of curiosity, would you put Deutsch before or after ę—„ęœ¬čŖž?

            P This user is from outside of this forum
            P This user is from outside of this forum
            [email protected]
            wrote on last edited by
            #119

            Since we're using Unicode we sort by first on left to right or last letter on right to left languages by their code point

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            • W [email protected]

              Haha, to avoid exactly this conundrum we prefixed languages with their iso code in a dropdown. So DE - Deutsch or EN - English.

              buboscandiacus@mander.xyzB This user is from outside of this forum
              buboscandiacus@mander.xyzB This user is from outside of this forum
              [email protected]
              wrote on last edited by
              #120

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              • E [email protected]

                Ive had multiple situations on websites or in games where i accidentally switched the language to like- japanese or something and then had to fumble around trying to switch it back. On websites at least you can translate to find the right option but i recently installed a game on my steamdeck and the input was all screwed up, and while trying to fix it i accidentally switched the language and then navigated away from the menu. Trying to get back to the right setting with broken input and not understanding anything wasnt fun.

                P This user is from outside of this forum
                P This user is from outside of this forum
                [email protected]
                wrote on last edited by
                #121

                The most recent update to Libre Office reset my UI language to one I don't know well enough to recognise. I uninstalled and reinstalled it.

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                • S [email protected]

                  My Pixel started giving me distances in miles once because I had the system language to English. I needed to change it to English (German) to show me meters. I don't know if they reverted that but at this point I am too afraid to change it.

                  P This user is from outside of this forum
                  P This user is from outside of this forum
                  [email protected]
                  wrote on last edited by [email protected]
                  #122

                  My pixel set to Australian English works fine in metric. I presume you chose British English where they use miles rather than kilometres, of course that works for me as I also want Australian spellings

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                  • W [email protected]

                    Which flag do we use for English?

                    I won't allow the stars and stripes

                    A This user is from outside of this forum
                    A This user is from outside of this forum
                    [email protected]
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #123

                    šŸ‡®šŸ‡³ obviously.

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • whynotsquirrel@sh.itjust.worksW [email protected]

                      the last one piss me off so much, especially when they redirect you and you don't have anyway to load the English version...

                      catlikelemming@lemmy.blahaj.zoneC This user is from outside of this forum
                      catlikelemming@lemmy.blahaj.zoneC This user is from outside of this forum
                      [email protected]
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #124

                      Even worse when a version is actually different. I had to check the US prices in a store once, it decided "nah mate, your IP's not American, clearly you're a bloody idiot, here's your native version" and even when I manually changed the url to US English, as they did languages based on part of the path, it still decided clearly I must not know what I want. I couldn't even try to infer the price, as the product didn't exist on my version of the site.

                      And aside from that and language pet peeves, what if you're on Holiday? Or live in an area that speaks a lot of languages close together?

                      As Cousin Mose said, the language is in the header, the fact that some web devs decide the IP address is clearly a better way to figure out what language you want is insane

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                      • H [email protected]

                        German dialects are still....German language, yes?

                        P This user is from outside of this forum
                        P This user is from outside of this forum
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                        wrote on last edited by
                        #125

                        They are more different than any of the Englishes are from each other

                        H 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • R [email protected]

                          The only thing I know about i18n is that it is an annoying shitload of language installer packages for both firefox and libreoffice ^^
                          That said, however, how you need training for a localization package to provide a language menu(!) - not the translations, mind you - in English, is beyond me. I can't follow the point you seem to be trying to make.
                          There's no reason to not hardcode (in English) a language selection menu, and then display the list of available site languages (and these should be a country flag with the name of language next to it in what may be the language itself)

                          S This user is from outside of this forum
                          S This user is from outside of this forum
                          [email protected]
                          wrote on last edited by [email protected]
                          #126

                          I can’t follow the point you seem to be trying to make.

                          The point is that it's really easy to point at stuff after the fact like it's obvious. Take for example your mention of flags; the World Wide Web Consortium recommends against their use, because countries aren't languages, and so the use of flags to represent them is potentially contentious depending on what market you're selling your product in and which flag you choose. Any screwup you make there would be really easy for some smartass to show up afterwards and say "well obviously you shouldn't use a Taiwan flag to represent Traditional Chinese if you're selling in China, dumbass, you shouldn't need special training to know that... and while we're at it, at least a few of the 8 million Ukrainians who speak Russian probably aren't keen on identifying themselves in their profile with a Russian flag either".

                          Again, and I feel like I'm repeating myself here, my point isn't that you're incorrect, it's that getting on your high horse about it and calling people dumb is kind of a neckbeard move because every aspect of i18n has the potential to make anyone look dumb.

                          R 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • P [email protected]

                            They are more different than any of the Englishes are from each other

                            H This user is from outside of this forum
                            H This user is from outside of this forum
                            [email protected]
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #127

                            Can you show me an example of a website outside of a .DE site that offers translation into any of them?

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                            • S [email protected]

                              I can’t follow the point you seem to be trying to make.

                              The point is that it's really easy to point at stuff after the fact like it's obvious. Take for example your mention of flags; the World Wide Web Consortium recommends against their use, because countries aren't languages, and so the use of flags to represent them is potentially contentious depending on what market you're selling your product in and which flag you choose. Any screwup you make there would be really easy for some smartass to show up afterwards and say "well obviously you shouldn't use a Taiwan flag to represent Traditional Chinese if you're selling in China, dumbass, you shouldn't need special training to know that... and while we're at it, at least a few of the 8 million Ukrainians who speak Russian probably aren't keen on identifying themselves in their profile with a Russian flag either".

                              Again, and I feel like I'm repeating myself here, my point isn't that you're incorrect, it's that getting on your high horse about it and calling people dumb is kind of a neckbeard move because every aspect of i18n has the potential to make anyone look dumb.

                              R This user is from outside of this forum
                              R This user is from outside of this forum
                              [email protected]
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #128

                              well obviously you shouldn’t use a Taiwan flag to represent Traditional Chinese if you’re selling in China, dumbass, you shouldn’t need special training to know that…
                              [..]
                              at least a few of the 8 million Ukrainians who speak Russian probably aren’t keen on identifying themselves in their profile with a Russian flag eitherā€

                              fair enough, that is a good point.

                              Again, and I feel like I’m repeating myself here, my point isn’t that you’re incorrect, it’s that getting on your high horse about it and calling people dumb

                              No, I wasn't calling people dumb, I was calling "most web developers" morons, and I stand by that. Most web developers are morons. And the language topic at hand is just one of many symptoms of that. Way more annoying than that is that almost all websites have been fubared with stupid frameworks and interactive sites transmitting each keypress and reloading parts of the page while you are trying to use them / whatever was in your focus before. Interactive websites can be done right, but most of the time they are not, and it's the fault of stupid marketing people and crappy web developers / designers who do NOT refuse to implement shitty marketing ideas.

                              J 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • I [email protected]

                                I have seen at least one site where they used the English flag. Luckily I have watched the European Cup a few times and could recognize it.

                                dual_sport_dork@lemmy.worldD This user is from outside of this forum
                                dual_sport_dork@lemmy.worldD This user is from outside of this forum
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                                wrote on last edited by
                                #129

                                Wow, the actual English flag, not the Union Jack?

                                I imagine that would trip up quite a few people even though there is a cheeky aspect of technical correctness to it.

                                I 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • A [email protected]

                                  Have different locales for uk and us

                                  dual_sport_dork@lemmy.worldD This user is from outside of this forum
                                  dual_sport_dork@lemmy.worldD This user is from outside of this forum
                                  [email protected]
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #130

                                  And I absolutely would not be able to resist labeling these as:

                                  • English, U
                                  • English, No U
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                                  • dual_sport_dork@lemmy.worldD [email protected]

                                    Wow, the actual English flag, not the Union Jack?

                                    I imagine that would trip up quite a few people even though there is a cheeky aspect of technical correctness to it.

                                    I This user is from outside of this forum
                                    I This user is from outside of this forum
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                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #131

                                    Yes, the actual English flag, not the British flag.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    2
                                    • R [email protected]

                                      The only thing I know about i18n is that it is an annoying shitload of language installer packages for both firefox and libreoffice ^^
                                      That said, however, how you need training for a localization package to provide a language menu(!) - not the translations, mind you - in English, is beyond me. I can't follow the point you seem to be trying to make.
                                      There's no reason to not hardcode (in English) a language selection menu, and then display the list of available site languages (and these should be a country flag with the name of language next to it in what may be the language itself)

                                      E This user is from outside of this forum
                                      E This user is from outside of this forum
                                      [email protected]
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #132

                                      The languages in a language menu should each be written in their own language. So German should be "Deutsch", English should be "English", Japanese should be "ę—„ęœ¬čŖž", etc.

                                      R 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • O [email protected]

                                        They're going to hiss at me aren't they?

                                        rickyrigatoni@retrolemmy.comR This user is from outside of this forum
                                        rickyrigatoni@retrolemmy.comR This user is from outside of this forum
                                        [email protected]
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #133

                                        That is the least of your worries.

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                                        0
                                        • tal@lemmy.todayT [email protected]

                                          Byte order in which Unicode encoding? UTF-16LE?

                                          E This user is from outside of this forum
                                          E This user is from outside of this forum
                                          [email protected]
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #134

                                          Why would anyone pick UTF-16LE? All the disadvantages of UTF-8, none of the advantages. The only reason to use it is when dealing with legacy systems that used it.

                                          Code point order would be somewhat decent, but even better is to use the user's chosen coallation order from their locale settings if possible.

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