Are there people that are otherwise logical but drop their skepticism when it comes to l religion? How do they consolidate those 2 sides of themselves?
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A big part of intelligence is understanding when you don't know something. You'll find that there are a lot of people who will make things up as they go because they don't want to admit they don't know something, which is unwise. So being confident in something that noone can know is not typically an intelligent thing to do.
Most people can be taught knowledge but your intelligence potential is mostly genetic, set at birth based on how well your processes run. Environmental factors will affect how much of your potential you will achieve.
On the face, it seems reasonable, but I'm not so sure. I'll think about that.
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You likely also participate in rituals that were taught to you that are not solely grounded in logic or science. Do you do things in a certain order for no reason other than your parents taught you to do so? Do you avoid eating certain foods because you never ate them growing up?
People who are raised religious may not be fanatic believers, but they may still be "culturally religious" e.g. take part in Ramadan, avoid eating pork, because that's the way they grew up, and a lot of the time it means they can be included in cultural matters of the community they come from.
As for why some people are proper religious, fully believing and all, I also don't think all beliefs have to be rational. Some beliefs are comforting. If it helps someone to get through a difficult time by believing there's a higher power rooting for them, or who has pre-planned their suffering for a greater good, they may choose to believe that because it's mentally easier. Arguably that is a rational belief anyway because it benefits you and makes your life easier to get through.
I get your sentiment but all the rituals I picked up in life are nowhere near the seriousness of a religion though. You're talking about choosing something that could potentially affect you for eternity vs me not wanting to eat guinea pigs because I didn't grow up in Peru.
I understand that people find comfort in religion and a lot do it as a way to calm their existential crises but my question is how someone who is otherwise logical can separate religious beliefs into another folder. They knowingly fool themselves into believing something that may not be true or possibly even being tricked into following a false idol but they don't apply those rules elsewhere.
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To me, that sums up the meaning of the eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The nakedness represents our innocence/vulnerability, so we as humans seek to hide it, in order to protect ourselves, from being hurt by others, especially those who have some perceived advantage over us. The garden was a safe space of ignorance. But it's illusory, and so I'm not entirely convinced the serpent (representing wisdom, not just knowledge) did us a disservice. But you'd have to delve into hermetic kabbalah to get the whole story. I've only scratched the surface, and that's over the last couple of years. Life has it's demands.
Yes adam and eve are a good example
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On the face, it seems reasonable, but I'm not so sure. I'll think about that.
I think you may be taking the word unintelligent as an insult, which it of course can be used as one but in this context I'm not using it as an insult.
They mentioned that science minded people will confidently say matter comes before conciousness as proof that logical people are confident in unproveable things as well. That statement was false to begin with because it was based on that science minded person being logical.
Being confident in something unproven is not the logical or intelligent thing to do so I was explaining why that example doesn't work as the example they gave was not of a logical intelligent thinker that I was asking about in my title.
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Honestly, it's such a deeply core part of my personality that I can't envision someone without it that's still "me".
I know most people who don't grow up religious don't seek it out later (though some do) and I'm not vain enough to think that I'm that different from most people.
As to changing religions, yes, I've had the opportunity to convert, and yes, I felt no desire to because I'm mostly satisfied with my religion. I flirt with the idea of attending a Unitarian or Quaker congregation sometimes but I already belong in an Episcopal one, y'know?
I get what you mean, my mom is the same way. She continued going to church and church functions after I left because that was her community. She couldn't name all 10 commandments but she's so used to that life and those people that it would be like losing her entire social network if she stopped going.
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I think you may be taking the word unintelligent as an insult, which it of course can be used as one but in this context I'm not using it as an insult.
They mentioned that science minded people will confidently say matter comes before conciousness as proof that logical people are confident in unproveable things as well. That statement was false to begin with because it was based on that science minded person being logical.
Being confident in something unproven is not the logical or intelligent thing to do so I was explaining why that example doesn't work as the example they gave was not of a logical intelligent thinker that I was asking about in my title.
Lol. That's... Quite a stretch. I do not consider this context as being insulting. I said I'm doing this between chores, and I need to think about it. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Lol. That's... Quite a stretch. I do not consider this context as being insulting. I said I'm doing this between chores, and I need to think about it. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'm clarifying why I said unintelligent because I think this is your second time pointing out the word in separate comments so it comes off as you having an issue with the word
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I'm clarifying why I said unintelligent because I think this is your second time pointing out the word in separate comments so it comes off as you having an issue with the word
I'm using the terminology you chose. Rough, I need to get back in shape! Moving furniture to clean under and behind is so. much. fun! But later I get to have a hot soak and my house is smelling nice. Not least of all because I'm cooking, too.
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I'm using the terminology you chose. Rough, I need to get back in shape! Moving furniture to clean under and behind is so. much. fun! But later I get to have a hot soak and my house is smelling nice. Not least of all because I'm cooking, too.
Nothing like 4 sets of couch raises and 2 sets of window wiping to get the blood pumping. Big fan of food, what you making?
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Nothing like 4 sets of couch raises and 2 sets of window wiping to get the blood pumping. Big fan of food, what you making?
Mole verde. I also cooked some beef, I'll do veggies after a bath. The last room can wait until tomorrow. I'm pooped!
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Mole verde. I also cooked some beef, I'll do veggies after a bath. The last room can wait until tomorrow. I'm pooped!
Sounds incredible! Enjoy!
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Not everyone who is deeply religious is a true believer. Some just see it as a community, and the rigid adherance to the rules as the key to that community. One of the rules is to always say you're a true believer, though. My sister in law is like this. She just decided one day to join a religion, researched the ones with the perks that best suited her and joined it.
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If I don't know something then im going to say I don't know, am I supposed to make up an answer? I call it irrational and illogical to be confident in something noone can know, which is the opposite of my stance.
What exactly are you reading as "not calm"? I've talked nothing but logic, no emotion involved in this at all yet the other guy is taking leaps and bounds to make assumptions of me that have all been incorrect guesses.
What exactly is it that confuses you so I can clear it up?
You present yourself as an agnostic but are very one sided in the debate, and you only have criticism for religious people. If you're going to use words like irrational and illogical for religious beliefs, at least have the intellectual honesty that your position is far more atheist than you're admitting to us or yourself. It's not nuanced or balanced at all.
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You present yourself as an agnostic but are very one sided in the debate, and you only have criticism for religious people. If you're going to use words like irrational and illogical for religious beliefs, at least have the intellectual honesty that your position is far more atheist than you're admitting to us or yourself. It's not nuanced or balanced at all.
You really don't need to go far to find proof that what you just said was false. I said people who claim with certainty that matter came before conciousness are as unintelligent as someone claiming they know what happens in the afterlife.
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You really don't need to go far to find proof that what you just said was false. I said people who claim with certainty that matter came before conciousness are as unintelligent as someone claiming they know what happens in the afterlife.
Sure, and Trump claims to respect women equally and has no qualms promoting women, but his contempt for them leaks out and the overall picture is starkly clear.
Maybe you don't realise that normal people consider words like "illogical", "irrational" and "unintelligent" pejorative.
Your behaviour is very like the people on here before the election spending at their time explaining why the Democrats are terrible and people shouldn't vote for them, but when challenged, claimed that they didn't support Trump at all. It was never clear whether they were lying to others or themselves
You're being condescendingly dismissive about other people's beliefs, overwhelmingly about religious beliefs, and I begin to think that you yourself believe that agnostism is the most defensible intellectual position, so you adopt it in theory, but you use it mainly to belittle religious viewpoints. I think emotionally and in behaviour you're an atheist, but you're not prepared to admit it to yourself because your intellectual heroes are agnostic and you look down on staunchly atheistic people, despite behaving like one online.
Give in. It's 2025. Be yourself.
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Sure, and Trump claims to respect women equally and has no qualms promoting women, but his contempt for them leaks out and the overall picture is starkly clear.
Maybe you don't realise that normal people consider words like "illogical", "irrational" and "unintelligent" pejorative.
Your behaviour is very like the people on here before the election spending at their time explaining why the Democrats are terrible and people shouldn't vote for them, but when challenged, claimed that they didn't support Trump at all. It was never clear whether they were lying to others or themselves
You're being condescendingly dismissive about other people's beliefs, overwhelmingly about religious beliefs, and I begin to think that you yourself believe that agnostism is the most defensible intellectual position, so you adopt it in theory, but you use it mainly to belittle religious viewpoints. I think emotionally and in behaviour you're an atheist, but you're not prepared to admit it to yourself because your intellectual heroes are agnostic and you look down on staunchly atheistic people, despite behaving like one online.
Give in. It's 2025. Be yourself.
Ah I see what the problem is, you think you know me and you've created an entire personality based on things I never said. Then when I give you proof of your false accusations you try to paint me as a villain that is harassing all religious people even though I haven't. Have a good night buddy
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Ah I see what the problem is, you think you know me and you've created an entire personality based on things I never said. Then when I give you proof of your false accusations you try to paint me as a villain that is harassing all religious people even though I haven't. Have a good night buddy
No, I don't know you at all, all I've got to go on is the way you're behaving in this thread.
If you think that calling people “illogical”, “irrational” and “unintelligent” isn't condescending and dismissive, your social awareness is extremely low, and I think your self awareness is rather low.
You like to assert that you are balanced, but you also like to spend all day calling religious folk unintelligent, illogical and irrational.
Your "have a good night buddy" is as utterly unconvincing as your neutrality.
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No, I don't know you at all, all I've got to go on is the way you're behaving in this thread.
If you think that calling people “illogical”, “irrational” and “unintelligent” isn't condescending and dismissive, your social awareness is extremely low, and I think your self awareness is rather low.
You like to assert that you are balanced, but you also like to spend all day calling religious folk unintelligent, illogical and irrational.
Your "have a good night buddy" is as utterly unconvincing as your neutrality.
So after accusing me of everything under the sun in a few comments based on lies, you now claim you don't know me at all. Well if you don't know me at all then stop categorizing me as a democrat and trump-like because you could not be further from the truth. You're not using any logic as evidenced by your random accusations, you're acting purely on emotion because you feel that I am attacking religious people even though you can read the conversations I've had with theists capable of being pleasant.
The words logical, irrational, and unintelligent are used because that is literally the topic of the post. If that bothers you I recommend you move on and reply to some other posts more relatable for you.
Again, ad hominem fallacies all over your comments because you are not arguing with me because you believe I'm wrong, you are arguing with me because you've projected a personality onto me that is not based on truths. You are the type of person to give religion a bad name because you're unable to hold a converation like an adult and prefer to throw a tantrum if someone's beliefs don't align with yours. Don't waste my time
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Evolution in complex organisms takes millions of years so no it's not something you'll witness in your life time. The evolutions you do witness are in faster aging, less complex organisms such as microbes which we can practically witness evolving in real time. Evolution isn't a theory, it is an inevitability, those that survive their surroundings pass on their genes, that is all that evolution is.
Also we can see evolution at work when bacteria develop resistance to medications.
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Also we can see evolution at work when bacteria develop resistance to medications.
Right, that's the type of microbial evolution I mean
