Friendly reminder that Tailscale is VC-funded and driving towards IPO
-
Tailscale never sat right with me. The convenience was nice, but - like other VC-funded projects - it followed that ever-familiar pattern of an "easy" service popping up out of nowhere and gaining massive popularity seemingly overnight.
I can't say I'm surprised by any of this.
Would you rather a difficult and hard to use program?
Easy to use means people will want to adopt it, and that's what VC companies want. Nobody wants to pay millions of dollars to make a program that nobody wants to use.
-
Corporate VPN startup Tailscale secures $230 million CAD Series C on back of âsurprisingâ growth
Pennarun confirmed the company had been approached by potential acquirers, but told BetaKit that the company intends to grow as a private company and work towards an initial public offering (IPO).
âTailscale intends to remain independent and we are on a likely IPO track, although any IPO is several years out,â Pennarun said. âMeanwhile, we have an extremely efficient business model, rapid revenue acceleration, and a long runway that allows us to become profitable when needed, which means we can weather all kinds of economic storms.â
Keep that in mind as you ponder whether and when to switch to self-hosting Headscale.
Question: if I setup Headscale on my network, I would have to open a port on my router to connect to it right? And also if I setup Headscale with some cloud provider, could they theoretically go and use the setup to get to my home network? I know its unlikely, I just mean if the technology is like e2e from clients to my home network, or if the cloud headscale 'centre' would be also an unguarded entry point (from the perspective of cloud admins). I hope I am clear
Thanks
(btw you probably guess why I currently use Tailscale) -
Not that it is a business but is a specific kind of business. VC funded startups eyeing an IPO more often than not start doing things users are not happy with. Maybe tailscale won't, but might as well be aware what kind of company they are acknowledge there is a decent chance of rugpulls
-
Does The Linux Foundation have complete control over Linux?
You're the one who said it, though.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Yes I did say that. I don't understand what you're trying to communicate. TLF does not control Linux, just as Tailscale does not control WireGuard. Tailscale does control Tailscale. There's nothing wrong with using Linux and there's nothing wrong with using WireGuard. There may be something wrong with using Tailscale. I don't know how to be more clear about this.
-
Firstly, I'm not trying to start a flame war with commenters, I genuinely just disagree on something and some people are getting a little hot under the collar by it. The Linux Foundation comment I made because ultimately VC touches more than people think. Even its something that isn't directly tied to VC, that money filters through groups like LF which is a non-profit and most would argue a quite legitimate organization. The point is there really is no separation or clear line of demarcation on what is "good" funding and what is "bad" funding.
wrote last edited by [email protected]The point is there really is no separation or clear line of demarcation on what is âgoodâ funding and what is âbadâ funding.
I understand and I disagree. A demarcation emerges from the goal of the funding and its effects. For me, one example of bad funding is funding that drives user acquisition at unsustainable prices by a firm that is also significantly controlled by the funding source. This is predominantly what VC-funding goes to. VC-funding that goes to a non-profit that the VC has no control over, where the VC can't and does not demand financial return from, is not bad funding in my books. Corporate funding doing the same thing is also not bad funding. Government funding often has the least strings attached as it does not demand direct return, and this also is not bad funding. To top that off citizens can exercise control over government funding via the democratic process, unlike corporate or VC funding, where the vast majority have zero control, and are owed no accountability by the businesses.
-
Didnt even work for me, i use mullvad so if i wanted to use tailscale on my android to connect to my desktop, it wants me to disable mullvad unlike on my desktop..
I think that's because both work on Android by being a VPN, and the system can't handle doing two vpns simultaneously
-
Would you rather a difficult and hard to use program?
Easy to use means people will want to adopt it, and that's what VC companies want. Nobody wants to pay millions of dollars to make a program that nobody wants to use.
wrote last edited by [email protected]My problem isn't directly with the programs - my problem lies with VC funding in general. Because they will come back for their money, and the project will inevitably enshittify and shove out enthusiasts in the never-ending search for infinite money.
The solution is getting rid of VC bullshit entirely. But we all know that will never happen.
-
Question: if I setup Headscale on my network, I would have to open a port on my router to connect to it right? And also if I setup Headscale with some cloud provider, could they theoretically go and use the setup to get to my home network? I know its unlikely, I just mean if the technology is like e2e from clients to my home network, or if the cloud headscale 'centre' would be also an unguarded entry point (from the perspective of cloud admins). I hope I am clear
Thanks
(btw you probably guess why I currently use Tailscale)wrote last edited by [email protected]if I setup Headscale on my network, I would have to open a port on my router to connect to it right?
The way I understand it is:
I would have to open a port on my router to connect to it right?
Yes
if I setup Headscale with some cloud provider, could they theoretically go and use the setup to get to my home network?
If they are able to authorize their own node to your Headscale server, then their node gets on your network.
If they take over the Headscale node, they might also be able to access your network, either by changing Headscale's config to auth another node or perhaps if the Headscale node is part of the network, which it might be, I don't recall. But I think that's immaterial. If someone takes over the Headscale machine, they can get on your network either way. -
Yup, I don't know if that is OP's intention, but I would agree myself with the complaint that "Tailscale is a business"
The way I see it, if it's a business it must generate revenue (either now or down the road), and that is enough to have me worried.
I do have a Tailscale registration, and the way they approach email communication is already a yellow flag to me (too many ad emails)yellow flag to me (too many ad emails)
Weird. I'm not saying you're lying, but besides the registration email, and onboarding welcome email, I can't think of any others I've received from Tailscale. In fact, I just did a search of my email client, and those were the only ones I've received.
-
Corporate VPN startup Tailscale secures $230 million CAD Series C on back of âsurprisingâ growth
Pennarun confirmed the company had been approached by potential acquirers, but told BetaKit that the company intends to grow as a private company and work towards an initial public offering (IPO).
âTailscale intends to remain independent and we are on a likely IPO track, although any IPO is several years out,â Pennarun said. âMeanwhile, we have an extremely efficient business model, rapid revenue acceleration, and a long runway that allows us to become profitable when needed, which means we can weather all kinds of economic storms.â
Keep that in mind as you ponder whether and when to switch to self-hosting Headscale.
I always knew it was too nice to stay non-shitty forever.
Guess it's time for me to pester my ISP to let me open some ports -
The point is there really is no separation or clear line of demarcation on what is âgoodâ funding and what is âbadâ funding.
I understand and I disagree. A demarcation emerges from the goal of the funding and its effects. For me, one example of bad funding is funding that drives user acquisition at unsustainable prices by a firm that is also significantly controlled by the funding source. This is predominantly what VC-funding goes to. VC-funding that goes to a non-profit that the VC has no control over, where the VC can't and does not demand financial return from, is not bad funding in my books. Corporate funding doing the same thing is also not bad funding. Government funding often has the least strings attached as it does not demand direct return, and this also is not bad funding. To top that off citizens can exercise control over government funding via the democratic process, unlike corporate or VC funding, where the vast majority have zero control, and are owed no accountability by the businesses.
Historically, Accel has never pushed acquisition. On the contrary, they do the opposite. Its why they VC fund over 300 companies, but you've never heard of them. That's not to say they couldn't, but they haven't ever acted in that manner previously so logically it would be safe to assume that trend continues with Tailscale. I think that's important here: its not about ability its about intent. If as a organization you give funding to another organization (even non-profits) you exercise at least some control over them as they are dependent on that money to function. This is actually a point other commenters have made in regards to Headscale. Headscale is maintained by a Tailscale employee. As they fund him personally, they can exercise some control over him as he depends on that money/employment. Again, even their comments circle back to ability vs intent. Tailscale could influence their employee, but would they? That's where a lot of the VC argument goes. Its just speculation as what a group could do, not what they would do.
-
I get your point, though Tailscale specifically crosses a line for me in this sense:
- Using code created/maintained by businesses: ok
- Relying in infrastructure maintained by businesses: not ok
I am not that big of an enthusiast, but the way I see it, if a company goes rogue and you're using their open source code, it's just a matter of forking it (I'm thinking about Emby/Jellyfin as an example)
If you rely on their infrastructure (such as Tailscale servers) then you are at the mercy of the companiesTo that end: I'd say that OP is prettt on point by suggesting Headscale, you're still "using Tailscale" in a sense, but without chaining yourself to the business
I am not that big of an enthusiast, but the way I see it, if a company goes rogue and youâre using their open source code, itâs just a matter of forking it (Iâm thinking about Emby/Jellyfin as an example) If you rely on their infrastructure (such as Tailscale servers) then you are at the mercy of the companies
-
Corporate VPN startup Tailscale secures $230 million CAD Series C on back of âsurprisingâ growth
Pennarun confirmed the company had been approached by potential acquirers, but told BetaKit that the company intends to grow as a private company and work towards an initial public offering (IPO).
âTailscale intends to remain independent and we are on a likely IPO track, although any IPO is several years out,â Pennarun said. âMeanwhile, we have an extremely efficient business model, rapid revenue acceleration, and a long runway that allows us to become profitable when needed, which means we can weather all kinds of economic storms.â
Keep that in mind as you ponder whether and when to switch to self-hosting Headscale.
Tailscale is great. The principle concern to me is that your super easy mesh network depends on Tailscale so if they want it they have control, and if they change their pricing or options you depend on them, and though they can't see the data you send they can see the topology of your network and where all your computers/devices are.
I use Nebula, which is more work to set up and doesn't have some of the features, not
But if you slap the 'lighthouse' (administrating node) on a cheap VPS it works great. And it has some advantages. But Nebula also troubles me: though it's fully open source and fully in your control, the documentation isn't great. Instead, you can now get "managed nebula", which puts you in the same problem as Tailscale: the company sees and controls your network topology. I fear the company (Defined Networking) is trying to push things that way. Even their android app you can't fully configure unless you use their 'managed' service.For now, Nebula is great, and my preferred mesh network (I looked into all the main ones). And for Tailscale you can run the administration server yourself with Headscale and be fully in your control.
Actually I wish Tailscale the best as a profitable business. They've created a fantastic service and system. But for me, I'd rather my network be in my own hands and for my own eyes. And, as is OP's main point, once they have enough dependent users, the service might turn much worse.
-
Are there better alternatives? I was planning on using tailscale until now.
I use Nebula. It's lightweight, well-engineered and fully under your control. But you do need a computer with a fixed IP and accessible port. (E.g. a cheap VPS)
You can also use "managed nebula" if you want to enjoy the same risk of the control point of your network depending on a new business
-
Tailscale is great. The principle concern to me is that your super easy mesh network depends on Tailscale so if they want it they have control, and if they change their pricing or options you depend on them, and though they can't see the data you send they can see the topology of your network and where all your computers/devices are.
I use Nebula, which is more work to set up and doesn't have some of the features, not
But if you slap the 'lighthouse' (administrating node) on a cheap VPS it works great. And it has some advantages. But Nebula also troubles me: though it's fully open source and fully in your control, the documentation isn't great. Instead, you can now get "managed nebula", which puts you in the same problem as Tailscale: the company sees and controls your network topology. I fear the company (Defined Networking) is trying to push things that way. Even their android app you can't fully configure unless you use their 'managed' service.For now, Nebula is great, and my preferred mesh network (I looked into all the main ones). And for Tailscale you can run the administration server yourself with Headscale and be fully in your control.
Actually I wish Tailscale the best as a profitable business. They've created a fantastic service and system. But for me, I'd rather my network be in my own hands and for my own eyes. And, as is OP's main point, once they have enough dependent users, the service might turn much worse.
Nice to hear your experience with Nebula. I considered it when I went with Tailscale years ago. Now you gotta migrate off of lemm.ee as it's shutting down soon.
-
Yeah, I also use that, but it's not quite as easy as the others. Either you're open to the whole network or you need some form of external key management to add/remove peers from your network.
-
There's a disclaimer in the readme: https://github.com/juanfont/headscale/?tab=readme-ov-file#disclaimer
The maintainer Tailscale contributes happens to be the lead developer by commit count at the moment.
Thank you!
-
Didnt even work for me, i use mullvad so if i wanted to use tailscale on my android to connect to my desktop, it wants me to disable mullvad unlike on my desktop..
Hmmm. I run PIA and Tailscale simultaneously on my devices. I did have to tinker around with the settings in PIA such as the VPN & Advanced Kill Switch. So, now Tailscale is for administrating remote servers, and PIA for everything else. DNS leak checks, etc all check out.
-
Corporate VPN startup Tailscale secures $230 million CAD Series C on back of âsurprisingâ growth
Pennarun confirmed the company had been approached by potential acquirers, but told BetaKit that the company intends to grow as a private company and work towards an initial public offering (IPO).
âTailscale intends to remain independent and we are on a likely IPO track, although any IPO is several years out,â Pennarun said. âMeanwhile, we have an extremely efficient business model, rapid revenue acceleration, and a long runway that allows us to become profitable when needed, which means we can weather all kinds of economic storms.â
Keep that in mind as you ponder whether and when to switch to self-hosting Headscale.
Tailscale is a business seeking profit? (clutches pearls gasp)
-
You really don't though. I use wireguard myself under the same scenario without issue. You just need to use some form of dynamic DNS to mitigate the potentially changing IP. Even if you're using Tailscale you'll still need to have something running a service all the time anyways, so may as well skip the proxy.
Your approach won't work if you're behind carrier grade NAT or you can't open ports. My landlord provides my internet so I use tailscale (with headscale on my long distance vps) to connect everything and it works great. It uses LAN when I'm home, and NAT punches when I'm elsewhere.
