Proton has stopped using their Mastodon account
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Welp, I guess I'm switching to Tuta now.
We really need another Swiss alrernative
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Non-profits make profit all the time. The key difference between a for-profit and a non-profit is that a for-profit company takes that money and gives it to its owners, and a non-profit is legally required to reinvest that money in its organization or missions.
Of course, non-profits can also do shitty things like nepo hires with vastly inflated salaries, throw parties and extravagant galas for "fundraising" and spent almost nothing on the charity aspect.
Switzerland is not the us though
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I’d say this move seems too dumb even for fiction, if that wasn’t the SOP for the entire country I live in.
Given the context though, I’m curious if one of you privacy experts can change my mind on how I approach email.
I don’t use email for any meaningful communication where I expect privacy. It is essentially the way for companies and a few other organizations to send me low priority information and/or confirm my identity to reset a password or whatever. Because of that, the only attributes of an email service I really care about are reliability and availability, including not having emails silently blocked for not coming from a “trusted” provider.
So what is the practical risk of just using a Gmail address for that stuff, equivalent to hiding in plain sight? Yeah it helps Google fine tune their advertising model for me, while I’m running Linux on all my machines and blocking ads on any device I touch. My social media is Lemmy and my streaming service is Jellyfin.
Am I risking too much if I use it as the corporate contact point that it is? Am I just letting my white/straight/cis/male privilege show through?
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I do think the second part of your statement was unnecessary.
In a normal scenario yes. This is not longer a normal situation. You support Trump? You better start hiding…
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The problem is that those arguments are not falsifiable. If not one, but two completely reasonable explanation cannot convince you of someone motivations, nothing can. However, I don't care if Musk did or did not a Nazi salute. His actions speak much louder (in a bad sense) than the aesthetic that he decides to adopt.
Proton donation pattern for example would be a strong indicator to measure intentions.but it was a wildly tone deaf one if so
Maybe. But also maybe people are allowed to have different cultural references, and in a global context (i.e., the internet) we should expect diversity. I - for example - had never heard of this 88 thing, and I would definitely not think about it at all the next time I create a username, and I didn't think it when I went to a barber shop that has that number in the name. Likewise, I wouldn't call anybody writing "Merry Xmas" tone deaf for missing the reference to the X MAS of infamous history (and just recently in the news). For some people it's apparently impossible to see their culture as non-universal (at the cost of sounding stereotypical, folks from US have particularly this problem after decades of cultural hegemony).
for a party that’s steeped in all of the same memetic game playing, you cant ignore the dog whistles
This all happened before Musk/Bannon salute. Just to specify it.
A lot of human actiona are unfalsifiable because we csnt read minds. That why inference about what people say and do is important.
The salute is just a reference to this behaviour writ large. It's not the beginning of it at all. Nazi and alt right groups have been doing dog whistles for decades, and the internet has proved a fertile ground for the behavior.
Its fine to not be aware of things like "88" or "14 words" or the like, but they are dog whistle memes used by racists and nazis, the people the mainstream right has been shifting towards for years and years. You very well may have some cultural touchstones that coincidentally use the same memes without that racist context, but when you're applauding the racists and using the terms at the same time?
Satre has a great quote about how facists dont care about what they say or do, as language is just a game to them:
Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
Jean-Paul Sartre
This game is wholley embraced by racists, so giving people "the benefit of the doubt" plays right into their game of feigning decroum while ramping up hate.
Again this may be an unfortunate coincidence for the proton CEO, but that does not undermine the overall point that he currently appears steeped in rightwing ideology, and that is not okay for someone claiming to uphold freedom and privacy.
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It’s not “his” company, the company is owned by the Proton foundation (of whatever it’s exactly called)
Yeah Yen is an idiot, but his power is more limited than with a normal CEO company structure and the Swiss law is a lot stricter than the competitors law in like Germany.
Just like with any of these mail servers, buy your own domain just incase the company switches gears and starts selling your data or whatnot
It’s not “his” company
I meant "his" the same way I say "my" company: it's not mine, but it's where I work and who I work for.
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Switzerland is not the us though
Correct? Those two are indeed separate countries with separate laws.
My explanation of the above was just a general breakdown about how nonprofit and for-profits differ. It was certainly US centric, if that's your critique.
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Proton is really just trashing their rep.
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Three years ago I made an issue on their feedback page because the android app doesn't really work on degoogled phones, it requires gms for notifications. Still not fixed.
Nice privacy focused App that can't fully be used if you take privacy seriously.
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There's not much point in "post and ghosting" to platform if you're not going to engage with its' users. You might as well just direct people to your blog instead.
I disagree. Posting and ghosting still helps people keep up to date with any news about the organization.
I'm not going to go out of my way to check a bunch of different org's blogs (and I'm not a fan of RSS), and prefer to be able to get news through social media. I only get news outside of aocial media when I want to properly study something in depth.
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For sure a lot of advantages to not having all your eggs in one basket.
Yeah that's also true. But I switched to proton specifically to have LESS work managing automatic email aliases that are tied to instantly creatable passwords/accounts. I might look into bitwarden with their alias service integration. But I'm not looking forward to another transfer of all of my stuff. For this very specific set of features, really all I can see is bitwarden or proton, and I really hope bitwarden is as seamless and easy as proton because I do not have the mental energy to fiddle with it all the time.
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A lot of human actiona are unfalsifiable because we csnt read minds. That why inference about what people say and do is important.
The salute is just a reference to this behaviour writ large. It's not the beginning of it at all. Nazi and alt right groups have been doing dog whistles for decades, and the internet has proved a fertile ground for the behavior.
Its fine to not be aware of things like "88" or "14 words" or the like, but they are dog whistle memes used by racists and nazis, the people the mainstream right has been shifting towards for years and years. You very well may have some cultural touchstones that coincidentally use the same memes without that racist context, but when you're applauding the racists and using the terms at the same time?
Satre has a great quote about how facists dont care about what they say or do, as language is just a game to them:
Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
Jean-Paul Sartre
This game is wholley embraced by racists, so giving people "the benefit of the doubt" plays right into their game of feigning decroum while ramping up hate.
Again this may be an unfortunate coincidence for the proton CEO, but that does not undermine the overall point that he currently appears steeped in rightwing ideology, and that is not okay for someone claiming to uphold freedom and privacy.
I agree with you on the principle. In this case I disagree with the premise. Years of actions I think easily out weight that tweet. If that's the only reason to be suspicious, then I don't think it's warranted.
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I agree this is an issue. They move away from a privacy oriented community. Additionally, the reason they give is vague and easily dismantled.
What I'm interested in is why this would be a good enough reason to switch providers. They haven't changed anything crucial in their mail offering, so why should I switch? -
They still offer free services, though.
It makes sense to if they want their encrypted email magic to be useful. A paid user can instruct a contact to make a free proton mail account in order to have secure communication with them
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Payed for by subscriptions. Protons free offerings (namely, the VPN) are severely crippled. The free tier VPN is almost trial like to sell you on the full product. I also haven't seen any of those youtuber sponsored -95% off deals other VPN providers have. Proton's pricing isn't exactly cheap which signals they do sell it at actual market rate instead of offering a cheap service which may or may not be subsidized by selling your data.
Nah, fair. Just based on the way Venezuelans described it to me, it seemed ubiquitous on the free end. I'm probably biased. I have no idea what their consumer demographics are, especially outside of the US.
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No. They're a non profit with a specific mission to further the enhancement of provacy. Under Swiss law they're legally obligated to adhere to this. Which means they can't collect user data willy nilly and sell it.
Also, it wouldn't make sense for a non-profit organization to profit from selling user data.
I worked for multiple non-profits that made a profit. That's not how this works. It's not the function, it's the cost.
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how come?
It's a good alternative & there are other services bundled-in with it
(All FOSS) -
I agree this is an issue. They move away from a privacy oriented community. Additionally, the reason they give is vague and easily dismantled.
What I'm interested in is why this would be a good enough reason to switch providers. They haven't changed anything crucial in their mail offering, so why should I switch?kinda wierd for proton to promote on reddit, when reddit doesnt allow VPN usage to most users, mostly for spam/botting/ban evasions.
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Do they really need a team of people to post the same thing to X, Mastodon, BkueSky, etc? I'm honestly surprised they don't have some bot to make all the posts for them to those services. Sounds like a cop out to me.
i heard they stopped posting on bluesky weeks ago, not surprised they are active on meta platforms, and X.
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Such delicate snowflakes these ceos…
on reddit they can pursue sitewide bans more easily on users, since reddit had started doing this month. its to silence all criticism against them, im betting facebook will be thier next stop.
