Seriously what's that idea?
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A lot of people here never had a stalker and it shows.
If you're concerned about someone being able to see your activity, no blacklisting-based system --- which is what OP is talking about in terms of "blocking" would be -- on a system without expensive identifiers (which the Threadiverse is not and Reddit is not --- both let you make new accounts at zero cost) will do much of anything. All someone has to do is to just make a new account to monitor your activity. Or, hell, Reddit and a ton of Threadiverse instances provide anonymous access. Not to mention that on the Threadiverse, anyone who sets up an instance can see all the data being exchanged anyway.
In practice, if your concern is your activity being monitored, then you're going to have to use a whitelisting-based system. Like, the Fediverse would need to have something like invite-only communities, and the whole protocol would have to be changed in a major way.
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That's okay, but it should be visible to everyone that you agreed or disagreed, for the sake of clarity, honesty and responsible communication. Ideally, votes wouldn't exist (and if you don't have anything to say in the forum or simply don't want to, well, you just don't and you lurk quietly), but if such low-level ways of engaging with the topic are allowed then we shouldn't be afraid to at least have that vote public, IMO.
for the sake of clarity, honesty and responsible communication
No? We're already using pseudonyms, which is intentional and has a purpose.
at least have that vote public, IMO
It already is public, just not easily accessible. Why do you want to know all the votes? A voter is not an active part of the conversation. I'd equate it to the audience cheering or booing on a talk show.
For the ones actively participating you can read their comments and it'll be obvious what their stance is.
Ideally, votes wouldn’t exist
Absolutely disagree on that one. Votes are a fundamental part of this type of social media, and the low-pressure interaction of up/down votes encourages a large number of people to interact and rank content. This shifts focus from the loudest/most active people dominating the space to the most widely appreciated content dominating the space. This is explicitly one of the parts I like about it.
Also, more replies are not necessarily useful. Consider all the "This!" or "Same!" comments from Reddit. An up/down vote is much more information dense.
Honestly it sounds to me like you actually want a forum based on fundamentally different mechanics. Technically it wouldn't be that difficult to create a Lemmy clone that just scraps votes entirely from the UI, but you'd need a new way to rank content.
In an ideal scenario I'd actually prefer the votes be entirely anonymous, but that's just not feasible with the fediverse system.
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If you're concerned about someone being able to see your activity, no blacklisting-based system --- which is what OP is talking about in terms of "blocking" would be -- on a system without expensive identifiers (which the Threadiverse is not and Reddit is not --- both let you make new accounts at zero cost) will do much of anything. All someone has to do is to just make a new account to monitor your activity. Or, hell, Reddit and a ton of Threadiverse instances provide anonymous access. Not to mention that on the Threadiverse, anyone who sets up an instance can see all the data being exchanged anyway.
In practice, if your concern is your activity being monitored, then you're going to have to use a whitelisting-based system. Like, the Fediverse would need to have something like invite-only communities, and the whole protocol would have to be changed in a major way.
Some stalkers might notice and circumvent, but most won't because in their mind they aren't doing anything wrong so why would they check if they got blocked. But apparently if the solution is not perfect it's not worth doing anything to deter it seems.
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Blocking someone is not a tool to silence them. It's a tool to ignore them.
I could see someone being frustrated that from a third party, it looks like you are not responding to a reply and that person could spin that as a concession that they were right
I could see a compromise, where a direct reply from such a blocked/muted person is allowed, but indicated so that people are aware a response could not have been done.
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They shouldn't be able to do that!
That's why I love Voyager for mobile viewing. Not sure the feature's exclusivity, but you can tag people and add up or downvotes to their accounts total. For instance, you were at +70 upvotes from me. But if I didn't like you, I could add a tag to your account with why or whatever, and add -1000, effectively highlighting, for me, how much less I enjoy your input compared to others. It doesn't hide their bullshit but makes it super obvious who sucks complete ass!
Along the vein of blocking, I like how lemmy does it. I can see the block person left a comment and choose to read it or ignore it.
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That's why I love Voyager for mobile viewing. Not sure the feature's exclusivity, but you can tag people and add up or downvotes to their accounts total. For instance, you were at +70 upvotes from me. But if I didn't like you, I could add a tag to your account with why or whatever, and add -1000, effectively highlighting, for me, how much less I enjoy your input compared to others. It doesn't hide their bullshit but makes it super obvious who sucks complete ass!
Along the vein of blocking, I like how lemmy does it. I can see the block person left a comment and choose to read it or ignore it.
Thanks that's useful!
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I didn't disregard your point, but i may have missed it.
afaict your point was "lemmy doesn't work that way, so either put up with it, fix it, or go elsewhere"I dont think thats a very reasonable stance to take, if that was your stance. I strongly don't believe in the motto criticism without a suggestion is destructive criticism. I believe there is a ton of value in getting criticism from people who don't understand what a fix would look like, or only knowing superficially what it'd look like.
right now we're engaging in a discussion about what change, if any, should even happen. I want to come to a consensus so that those volunteer devs aren't wasting their time working on things that make peoples' lives worse.
I'm trying to say "hey, what OP wants isn't an unreasonable thing for a person using a social network to want" and try to explain why i think its reasonable for them to want.
Ok, so you've chosen 'we are both going to agree that perfect would be better than not perfect'.
For what it's worth, I'm not downvoting you.
But I will be blunt: I don't think you are capable of describing a coherent, implementable version of what you want.
What is your proposal for what, precisely, should be changed?
How are you, or ... apparently you would be asking other people to do this ... how is this change going to be compatible with lemmy as it currently exists, such that every instance could easily adopt it as an update... or... some instances could adopt it as a compatible sort of 'add-on' or 'plugin'?
Who is going to implement that change, or, how is that change going to come about?
Seeing that you don't appear to be willing to code this yourself... how are you going to convince someone else to do this?
What I am saying is 'OP actually does want an unreasonable thing, not from the standpoint of an end user of software who is.concerned about their safety in the abstract, but from the standpoint of being able to outline something that might actually work and also ever be designed.'
What they are asking for is more or less an entirely fundamentally different system than lemmy. They are asking for an entirely new kind of software that works from a fundamentally different paradigm.
Its more like uh, outlining that cars could be safer, and they think they are asking for airbags to be installed, but what they are actually asking for is someone to design a public transportation system.
Thats about the scale and scope of how mechanisticly different what they are asking for is, from how things curfently work... even though, to them, its just a 'way of how they get from point a to point b', and thus seems trivial to them.
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If I block someone, and one of their posts or comments gets reported for moderation, it won't allow the moderation tools to work. I have to un-block them to moderate them.
that's fully expected, if you don't want to see someone's posts why would you be able to moderate those posts?
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here, let me link you to the paradox of tolerance, you absolute mudcake.
try learning something.
The paradox of tolerance doesn't mean what you think it means.
The "paradox" is fully resolved if you have strong guarantees for the tolerance you care about: fundamental freedoms and equality, and punishments for those who attempt to subvert them. So you don't "tolerate" people who are in the process of dismantling that tolerance by advocating for or engaging directly in harassment of trans people (for example) but you also don't punish people who, for example, are opposed to trans women participating in womens' sports - because while equal participation ought to be a guaranteed matter of equality, we've also broadly agreed as a society that sports ought to be split, and the precise nature of that split is not a guaranteed matter of equality.
Applying this to Lemmy, there is no risk to tolerance in allowing a discussion about sex, gender and sports. There is a risk to tolerance in allowing a "discussion" in which trans people are generally disparaged on the basis of their transition, because it can lead to actions which go beyond mere speech.
To look at this another way, rather than linking a wikipedia page with a dumb insult and saying "try learning something", you'd be better off identifying the behaviour you don't want to see, what action you want to take about it, and why it's justified based on the consequences of not taking that action. "Tolerance" and "intolerance" are vague terms, so have a more productive discussion by being precise.
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This isn't about me, this is about what people from persecuted minorities have told me they need, when I bought this exact argument to them.
I used to say what you're saying them they described to be the harassment that they face
This isn’t about me, this is about what people from persecuted minorities have told me they need, when I bought this exact argument to them.
The same arguments apply, though.
Your version of blocking doesn't exactly handle the problem you're describing well, either, as someone wishing to spread hate or "off-screen harassment" can block their direct target which, under the model, will mean they can't see it, and then post.
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That's why I love Voyager for mobile viewing. Not sure the feature's exclusivity, but you can tag people and add up or downvotes to their accounts total. For instance, you were at +70 upvotes from me. But if I didn't like you, I could add a tag to your account with why or whatever, and add -1000, effectively highlighting, for me, how much less I enjoy your input compared to others. It doesn't hide their bullshit but makes it super obvious who sucks complete ass!
Along the vein of blocking, I like how lemmy does it. I can see the block person left a comment and choose to read it or ignore it.
And its on froid
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Thanks that's useful!
You're +8 for me!
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Blocking someone is not a tool to silence them. It's a tool to ignore them.
I think communicating that someone is blocked is a useful part of blocking. Even if it's just a notification after comment "you have a blocked reply, it will not be visible to the poster".
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Bluesky differentiates between blocking and muting. Bluesky blocking is like what you describe, which is also how Reddit blocking works. Bluesky muting is like Lemmy blocking, where they can engage on your posts, you just won't see it.
However bluesky is not decentralized. This is handled by their appview, which other bluesky clients might change
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You're +8 for me!
And you cook better than you insult!
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And you cook better than you insult!
That could be. I guess I've got a tag!
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That's why I love Voyager for mobile viewing. Not sure the feature's exclusivity, but you can tag people and add up or downvotes to their accounts total. For instance, you were at +70 upvotes from me. But if I didn't like you, I could add a tag to your account with why or whatever, and add -1000, effectively highlighting, for me, how much less I enjoy your input compared to others. It doesn't hide their bullshit but makes it super obvious who sucks complete ass!
Along the vein of blocking, I like how lemmy does it. I can see the block person left a comment and choose to read it or ignore it.
How do you do that? I'm on voyager and didn't know about this. I would love tags
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Blocking someone is not a tool to silence them. It's a tool to ignore them.
A block should also be able to prevent them from seeing your activity. That would not constitute silencing the blocked individual as they can still go anywhere and talk to/see anyone else on the fediverse, just not you.
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I'm generally trying to go off of a conversation I had with someone 2 years ago in lemmy. I was generally of the opposite opinion to my current stance, and they explained how the current "everything is public, dont even try to hide it from people" stance is problematic to persecuted minorities. It was 2 years ago so I'm a bit fuzzy on the details - I had to go look it up because someone didnt believe that the conversation even existed, but i didnt re-read the whole comment section.
their point was that, while total privacy in a federated service is likely impossible, you want to make it non-trivial for harassers to do harassment.
reporting is absolutely more appropriate than blocking, but blocking has a few advantages:
- its immediate, you dont need to wait for mods/admin.
- you don't need to prove to an admin that something that the harasser said about you is actually a lie.
- mods/admins don't need to be up-to-date on all the current dogwhistles
- it doesn't need to actually affect the harasser beyond you. they dont need to get banned from the whole community or instance, unless the community or instance feels like they should be. its lower impact. This is important for lemmy communities that represent real communities, like classes or teams or neighborhoods.
If you can't see the replies how can you possibly be harassed by it?
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Someone else in this thread pointed out that this would just encourage bad actors to make sock puppet accounts to get around being blocked.
