Its like seeing those high-tech pop machines for the first time
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Well Half-Life Alyx uses forward rendering and has a brilliant MSAA implementation. It is optimised because it needs to be. You cannot have this thing chugging along with 30Hz at full HD. You need 4K or more running at 90Hz or more. So they invested a good amount of time into making sure it functions properly before releasing it.
Also, foliage really doesn't need to be fixed, if it is done properly. Example, 20 year old games like Halo 3 or the Crysis games.
I take issue with modern games because why the hell are they forgetting lessons of the past? Crysis and Halo 3 for example are 20 years old and they have better looking foliage than most modern games because they know what to do to avoid pop-in and noise. Yes, modern games have more foliage, because more VRAM, but older games have better looking foliage, due to the lack of wonky artifacts, in my opinion. And also, the proprietary TAA implementations, or TSR implementations, in my experience, add a ton of input latency, which makes the game feel worse. MSAA, because it uses geometry information to build AA, enhances image quality significantly and gives a better looking and more coherent picture than any other implementation of anti-aliasing, including proprietary TSR. Also, MSAA isn't my religion, I realise that there are some aspects where TAA and TSR can be useful, but problem is, in modern games it gets abused because devs can then say "we'll just do the absolute minimum, make sure the game executes on hardware at HD 30 Hz, and then we'll just let the magic TSR and frame generation handle the rest".
Well, the problem with MSAA is that it needs to have good geometry in the first place if quad overdraw is complete shit because no one bothered to make tessellation or proper LOD models and let just some automatic tool handle everything without any supervision, then yes, it will be horrible. If devs say, "it makes my geometry timing horrible", then we already know that their geometries are utter rubbish.
Also a brilliant example of why I'm bothered by that is Payday 3 because it looks like a late PS3 game and runs like complete trash and has a massive CPU bottleneck, no matter what you do, even if you doctor around with the engine settings themselves.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]This guy games.
Also, if your game can't look decent without any kind of DLSS or AA, you need to stop and fix that before relying on AA. Personally, I can't stand the blurriness of any kind of AA, including DLSS, and almost always turn it off.
Games are not still images and our brains are super good at motion interpolation between discrete pixels. To me, it always looks sharper and clearer and truer to life (I have very good vision irl, so blur is unwelcome, and TAA is just... Why would you want that outside of being an effect like being drunk or stunned?).
Fuck TAA. 100%, forever.
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I miss 2003. So many bangers from that year. Ignition by R. Kelly. Picture by Kid Rock/Sheryl Crow. P. Diddy's party anthems Shake Ya Tailfeather and Bump, Bump, Bump. You could tune into The Apprentice to learn about business and enjoy Donald Trump's timeless one-liners, or The West Wing to learn about the American presidency, maybe a little Chappelle's Show for some laughs. Apparently it was also the first year we could all go hop on 4chan and Google Adsense for the first time. Anyway, it kinda makes you wonder what all those folks are up to now. I hope they're well.
You just reminded me of why Y2K era nostalgia makes me ill.
I was working part time in a mall and heard all this shit on repeat, and my co-workers were quoting The Chappelle Show because it was ok to be racist if a black guy said it first.
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In my opinion, the fidelity is getting worse than what we had 10 or 20 years ago. Because now we have noise, pop-in, and the temporal smearing because of proprietary TAA and TSA. Example being Payday 3 and this new Justice League or Batman game where you play with the four characters, Which I couldn't bother to remember, Because everything about the game is way worse than the Arkham Knight game, which almost is 10 years old by now.
Man. I went back and played some native raster graphics games with no AA.
It was like I took the drunk glasses off. Everything made sense again. The headache went away. I could see. Object permanence in the engine was insane... Because it all just was.
In the late 00s and early 10s we had bad console ports. But before then, things were actually amazing. And after, when TB putting up a stink about options finally got traction, games were reaching a screaming peak and things were finally figuring it out. I really do believe that right now, we're just in that awkward early-phase of a technology (like the latest 90s with the earliest 3D being really awkward) where people are trying new things and, regardless of rhetoric or stubbornness, will eventually have to face the cold, nuanced truth, no matter what:
TAA is dung and should be flung into the sun.
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You just reminded me of why Y2K era nostalgia makes me ill.
I was working part time in a mall and heard all this shit on repeat, and my co-workers were quoting The Chappelle Show because it was ok to be racist if a black guy said it first.
You're being downvote because you are correct. The culture in 2000s America was trashy at best. The CIA psyop was in full effect (project mockingbird) and everyone was dancing to the rhythm of the patriotic drum, and being asleep at the wheel.
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Honestly I couldn't care less, because DLSS/FSR looks better than native with AA at this point. It's so good, that I even turn it on in games that I don't need to.
Quality comparable to supersampling, and I get a FPS boost too? Sign me the fuck up. It's like magic.
TAA is garbage. Devs are using it as a crutch too.
Look up Threat Interactive on YouTube. -
I'll take DLSS over any other AA solution any day.
We no longer use forward renderers, AA either looks like ass or comes with a massive performance cost, and it can't fix noise from foliage, alphas, smoke, etc. DLSS fixes all three issues at once.
TAA is ass, but don't look in the other ones with it.
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Reminder: Temporal, proprietary upscalers are only made mandatory by devs, that actively refuse to make a properly functioning product.
Let's not forget Nvidia created DLSS and Raytracing and directly helped devs integrate them into their games to create demand for their newer cards.
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I'll take DLSS over any other AA solution any day.
We no longer use forward renderers, AA either looks like ass or comes with a massive performance cost, and it can't fix noise from foliage, alphas, smoke, etc. DLSS fixes all three issues at once.
Easy to not have artifacting when everything is a big smudge.
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A buddy of mine was locked up from 03 - 17. He was asking me, questions like " do you have Playstation 3, what kind of phone do you have?" ...
He said " man I know I missed a lot but people are so rude now. I was talking to my cousin and instead of talking to me he was looking at his phone. That is disrespectful." I said yeah man the world changed a lot. Felt terrible for him trying to integrate back into this bull shit.
He went away for the craziest shift in society I could imagine.
Wow that’s saying a lot. I would help them to stay away from those habits. May help you as well.
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I couldn't even imagine what seeing PC games for the first time in 2025 feels like, after not seeing them since 2011.
Do you think they were blown away? Or maybe disappointed that we still don't have photorealistic graphics yet? I wish I could speak with this person so I could pick their brain.
Honestly, the jump from 2011 to 2025 doesn't seem nearly as steep as say 2000-2011. Sure games look better today but 2011 games still hold up. In 2000, 3d graphics were still new and most titles are considered unplayable now in terms of graphics and controls
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"I remember 14 years ago when my GPU used to draw almost 400 watts. Crazy right? Anyways, how is GPU power consumption these days?"
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Reminder: Temporal, proprietary upscalers are only made mandatory by devs, that actively refuse to make a properly functioning product.
Not sure why most games cant/dont do this, but i've seen Minecraft shaders use temporal upscaling exclusively on the clouds, reflections, and shadows. while using fxaa for the rest of the image.
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I couldn't even imagine what seeing PC games for the first time in 2025 feels like, after not seeing them since 2011.
Do you think they were blown away? Or maybe disappointed that we still don't have photorealistic graphics yet? I wish I could speak with this person so I could pick their brain.
Arkham City, Crysis 2, Skyrim. It really hasn't changed much. They've spent most of their time wanking over higher resolution and nicer reflections.
For comparison there was 14 years between this:
and this:
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Easy to not have artifacting when everything is a big smudge.
Have you used DLSS or are you extrapolating FSR 1080p and believing it looks the same?
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Have you used DLSS or are you extrapolating FSR 1080p and believing it looks the same?
Yes, I have. It's also crap. The super agressive softening makes you feel like you are using a myopic camera. You could argue it's poor implementation by developers, but it makes no difference to me.
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Not sure why most games cant/dont do this, but i've seen Minecraft shaders use temporal upscaling exclusively on the clouds, reflections, and shadows. while using fxaa for the rest of the image.
Wow, I didn't know that, that's genuinely cool.
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Let's not forget Nvidia created DLSS and Raytracing and directly helped devs integrate them into their games to create demand for their newer cards.
Yeah, they laid out the bait and got them hook, line and sinker.
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Man. I went back and played some native raster graphics games with no AA.
It was like I took the drunk glasses off. Everything made sense again. The headache went away. I could see. Object permanence in the engine was insane... Because it all just was.
In the late 00s and early 10s we had bad console ports. But before then, things were actually amazing. And after, when TB putting up a stink about options finally got traction, games were reaching a screaming peak and things were finally figuring it out. I really do believe that right now, we're just in that awkward early-phase of a technology (like the latest 90s with the earliest 3D being really awkward) where people are trying new things and, regardless of rhetoric or stubbornness, will eventually have to face the cold, nuanced truth, no matter what:
TAA is dung and should be flung into the sun.
I hear you, but what do you mean by a transitional phase? Transitioning to what? I'm curious.
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This guy games.
Also, if your game can't look decent without any kind of DLSS or AA, you need to stop and fix that before relying on AA. Personally, I can't stand the blurriness of any kind of AA, including DLSS, and almost always turn it off.
Games are not still images and our brains are super good at motion interpolation between discrete pixels. To me, it always looks sharper and clearer and truer to life (I have very good vision irl, so blur is unwelcome, and TAA is just... Why would you want that outside of being an effect like being drunk or stunned?).
Fuck TAA. 100%, forever.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Amen. But in all honesty, TAA has its place for correcting some artifacts, with clouds for example, where blur really doesn't matter. See the minecraft comment above, that's interesting.
Edit: typo.
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Not sure why most games cant/dont do this, but i've seen Minecraft shaders use temporal upscaling exclusively on the clouds, reflections, and shadows. while using fxaa for the rest of the image.
Because you need to dig into the rendering engine to do that, and if you didn't build it yourself you might not be able to do that easily
