What is your opinion on national pride / patriotism?
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My take is that patriotism is a corruption of the feeling of belonging we get from community.
It's not a 'corruption', it's just tribalism in the modern day
For an example of the corruption of the feeling of community, that would be politicians milking their base for donations by stirring up community fear: i.e. MS13 is going to rape your pets, send me money to be tougher on immigration
But just patriotism is what happens when humans live in groups larger than a hundred or so
It's also really dangerous in itself, even without intentional corruption and abuse
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The philosophy behind that is that only individual choices matter.
What you're saying is logical, but only if you're on-board with an individualist worldview to start.
ridiculous and unproductive navel gazing, the basic unit of human consciousness is the individual
If we were a hivemind species your vapid dilletance might be valid but I really don't see a purpose in theoretical psychology.
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It's a coping mechanism that gives people who achieved nothing in their life something to brag about
Fucking thank you, this is so much more concise than what I wrote and encapsulates it fully
like sports clubs but a bit deadlier
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Some of my life-achievements involved contributing to my nation.
Ok, good, that's you, a productive citizen following the social contract
BUT
Most people who wear the flag and shout that they are patriots have been nothing but leeches on the nation
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I have some national pride, usually about small things that I know my country cares overly much about and some cultural quirks I care about (how to serve coffee, the structure of a conversation, obscure literary references and so on).
I have some patriotism, as in: I want my country to be the best version of itself it can be. Keeping the good parts (not many) and evolving the rest.
Then, I am very cynical, so the little patriotism is submerge by a distant distaste and expectation of everything to fuck up.
(European here)
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It can be a useful political tool in the imperial periphery when used correctly. In the imperial core it is a tool of oppression.
Hate to break it to you buddy but those pithy words were created before militaries could deploy anywhere worldwide within nine hours
EVERYTHING is periphery nowadays, I figured 9/11 clued everyone in on that
And it's still a tool of oppression
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ridiculous and unproductive navel gazing, the basic unit of human consciousness is the individual
If we were a hivemind species your vapid dilletance might be valid but I really don't see a purpose in theoretical psychology.
indubitably
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Tribalism is tribalism whether or not they reach national borders
The only reason you think they are 'cute' is that they don't have military power
Give the Limburgers a military that can compete on the world stage and in a few years they would be just the same as any other nationalist power
Every tribe gains military power when I'm a member.
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I was raised around a lot of "patriotism" (closet nationalism) and have had to adapt the feeling now that I understand better what America actually is and has been. I found that trying to abandon the feeling altogether was making me feel cynical and alone. The parts of America that I love in fact tend to exist despite our government and dominant culture, which steals and appropriates the things I love about us and turns them into the things people know about us and dislike for good reason. I love the source materials, not the end result. As a white person born into privilege on stolen land, my existence is not entirely apart from this, but all's I can do with that is try to make something better of it.
There's a salt-of-the-earth working-class segment of this country that's getting screwed over, knows how and why they and others are getting screwed over, and has learned to survive together in spite of it. People that make families out of communities. Rail hoppers, union organizers, queer punks, the list goes on. That spirit is not unique to this country but there do exist uniquely American forms of it. I'm more proud of these people than words can express, and that's about as close to patriotic as I can feel these days.
Maybe I just like seeing our shitty protestant labor worship turned to something more productive. Maybe I just spent too much time in the mountains to not fall in love with the land itself. Or maybe I just love banjos.
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Hate to break it to you buddy but those pithy words were created before militaries could deploy anywhere worldwide within nine hours
EVERYTHING is periphery nowadays, I figured 9/11 clued everyone in on that
And it's still a tool of oppression
The US is not an imperial periphery. Being attacked doesn't make you periphery. Idk where you got that idea. These terms are primarily in regard to economic relations
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Patriotism. It’s the food of the wise man but the liquor of the fool.
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I tend to agree with Schopenhauer(other than it sounding quite arrogant/condescending the way he puts it…):
The cheapest sort of pride is national pride; for if a man is proud of his own nation, it argues that he has no qualities of his own of which he can be proud; otherwise he would not have recourse to those which he shares with so many millions of his fellowmen. The man who is endowed with important personal qualities will be only too ready to see clearly in what respects his own nation falls short, since their failings will be constantly before his eyes. But every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.
Suffers from the same individualism as some other comments.
Most people know how to be proud of things outside their small self. It's only that Protestant individualist mindset that denies the reality of the collective, and with it collective pride.
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The philosophy behind that is that only individual choices matter.
What you're saying is logical, but only if you're on-board with an individualist worldview to start.
You can be proud of your community and others you identify with without putting that pride on arbitrary bounds of organization regardless of how the organization is ran.
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The US is not an imperial periphery. Being attacked doesn't make you periphery. Idk where you got that idea. These terms are primarily in regard to economic relations
No, it is armchair wiki scholar talk ripped from the Romans like some freaking 40k fanboy.
It's not even a good comparison as an economic metaphor as in modern markets there is no geographical center
Just face it, you wanted to sound wise and it fell flat so now you're moving the goalposts. Fucking typical
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indubitably
Is that literally all you can bring? I thought we were having a discussion here...
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Is that literally all you can bring? I thought we were having a discussion here...
Most people don't take it as a cultural dogma that the individual is the be-all-and-end-all
If you're an angry autist with that cultural dogma, I'm not gonna try talk you out if it. Most people find it easy to be proud of their ancestors or family or country.
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Most people don't take it as a cultural dogma that the individual is the be-all-and-end-all
If you're an angry autist with that cultural dogma, I'm not gonna try talk you out if it. Most people find it easy to be proud of their ancestors or family or country.
Wait, you think I'm a patriot? Media literacy is fucking dead...
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Wait, you think I'm a patriot? Media literacy is fucking dead...
You think I think you're a
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This post did not contain any content.wrote on last edited by [email protected]
Pride in your country/state/etc is ok, nationalism is not. The US only knows indoctrination and nationalism. Canada is a little better about it with their buy Canadian movement, imo
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No, that's just having a strong sense of community
The difference is you aren't blinded to the flaws that need to be fixed
A 'patriot' will insist that American is the perfectbest and awesome and has zero flaws and if you insist there are flaws then you must be a damn communist and it is their moral duty to oppose everything you suggest for change
And it's fucking our country so bad that we won't be a world power in 20 years
And it’s fucking our country so bad that we won’t be a world power in 20 years
Unfortunately, I very much doubt that. Look at Russia, it's even worse than the USA AND has a far worse economy, yet it's still a major power.
