So proud!
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IDK, I often find myself mansplain and not infodump. I am not from the boomers, I'm not sexist in any rational way, I'm pretty left leaning, I am though a piece of shit sometimes.
I think that's how most people are. They don't identify as sexist, but they do sexist things because of conditioning. No one ever thinks they're a bad person, best we can do is try to be aware of our bullshit and keep learning.
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Mansplainer perspective here. No, it doesn't come (for me) from a belief that a woman can't do anything, it rather comes from an instruction from a childhood that boys should always help and defend girls. If I were in place of that boss, my unconscious intent would be to lower the woman's burden.
I catch myself doing it and stop it but it's the hardest pattern I have ever corrected insofar.
I really appreciate this perspective and it really does shine light on how one is raised based on their gender. I can think of a multitude of examples from your perspective and also from who you are responding to.
I'm absolutely positive that, regardless of how hard I tried not to, I did raise my son and daughter differently. All I hope is that I did a little better than my parents did for me and my brothers and, should they have kids themselves, my children do a little better than I did, and so on and so forth.
Today is not that day but maybe when I'm dust, society will slowly limp along and evolve. Conversations like this may seem divisive now but I think they're needed in the grand scheme of things.
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The system can be racist and the person not racist you should read your own source or I dunno like any source about systemic racism.
Cool so those questions, are you going to answer them or are we playing dodge ball for some reason.
The point I was making was that a person can be a participant in the racism, while their personal intentions are not. Their personal intentions do not mean that what they are participating isn't racist, and that is what the paper says, and what you said it said.
Why must you know from random people online, rather than experts? Is it because you can argue against people who are not experts, while not so much with people bringing the data? Are you just lazy? Is that it? You can't be fucked to read anything that isn't as small, and surface level, as a forum comment section? Why require me, someone who does not have professional expertise in a subject, to be the person who gives you answers on that subject, rather than the people who have that? There is no better way to get answers than from the people who spend their lives specifically working to understand it, why be so adamant laymen answer you? What is it that makes you desire some rando answer these questions for you when the experts' publications on the subject are right there?
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Okay but what if I’m excited to talk about dinosaurs? Is it mansplaining because I didn’t know the lady im talking to is a paleontologist ?
And people wonder why many men are afraid to talk to women.
These are just dumb people, doesnt matter man or woman, we have them on both sides
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As a man with adhd, I do this all the time to men and to women, and I've been accused of mansplaining. I'm working on it, but I promise it has nothing to do with sexism. I just think everybody needs to know all the details so rhey can reach the same conclusions as me.
And for what it's worth, I really appreciate when someone does the same for me on a topic I don't know about. But I understand how frustrating it is when someone does it on a subject I do know about, so I always try to gauge knowledge before info dumping. What catches me off guard is when someone isn't interested in learning. They don't know everything, and they are just OK with walking through life, knowing they don't know something.
Point is, I really do appreciate the grace presented in the post. I don't mind if you're being condescending if you forgive me for oversharing.
wrote last edited by [email protected]If the reason you are giving information to a woman is not that you are assuming their ignorance based on the fact that they're a woman, you're not mansplaining. Period.
The sexist assumption is a core 'component' of the phenomenon.
Also, said assumption can be sex-related, but also all sorts of other things. That's why I've adopted the term "splaining" as an umbrella term for it. "Mansplaining" unfairly creates the misandric perception that only men do it, and that the only motivating assumption is 'because she's female'. Both are inaccurate. I myself have experienced this based on several different assumptions throughout my life, based on my sex, age, even where I live.
Is it 'splaining' to assume you know more than someone else on subject X because they're younger? Yes.
Because they're white? Yes.
Because they just started in an industry you've been working in for 10 years? No.And so on.
I really hope this term catches on at some point, lol.
P.S. Also, an assumption as described above is literally mandatory for it to count. If I'm explaining something to you after you've overtly demonstrated your ignorance on that subject, or I'm correcting a demonstrably false statement, that's not any kind of 'splaining', regardless of what either person's sex/race/age/etc. is.
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We can dress it up however you like. Your claim is now: Any woman who believes a man is being misogynistic towards her is actually herself being prejudiced or discriminatory towards him.
Still a pretty whacky opinion, but if you like that better, who am I to stop you.
No. You're adding random shit that I never said and still avoiding two simple questions.
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It would be cool if we could keep sexism off lemmy. This isn't reddit.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Mansplaining ord is sexism itself. Agree with you we should discourage such things
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The point I was making was that a person can be a participant in the racism, while their personal intentions are not. Their personal intentions do not mean that what they are participating isn't racist, and that is what the paper says, and what you said it said.
Why must you know from random people online, rather than experts? Is it because you can argue against people who are not experts, while not so much with people bringing the data? Are you just lazy? Is that it? You can't be fucked to read anything that isn't as small, and surface level, as a forum comment section? Why require me, someone who does not have professional expertise in a subject, to be the person who gives you answers on that subject, rather than the people who have that? There is no better way to get answers than from the people who spend their lives specifically working to understand it, why be so adamant laymen answer you? What is it that makes you desire some rando answer these questions for you when the experts' publications on the subject are right there?
wrote last edited by [email protected]Sure and you're still a racist if you drop hard r's based on your perception of someone, it's a fun and easy easy to tell who's a racist and who simply exists in a racist system.
Experts agree it's specifically a perjorative sexist term, this weird definition that says it's in some crazy way not sexist only seems to exist on the Internet likely because it's very difficult to argue in earnest that the obviously sexist thing you just said isn't sexist.
Even the sources provided call it pejorative which I dunno if you know means it's specifically a slur.
Why require me, someone who does not have professional expertise in a subject, to be the person who gives you answers on that subject, rather than the people who have that?
No one said you specifically, you fucking volunteered so drop the crybaby victim bullshit and answer either of the two questions both of you keep dodging.
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So many likes under this toxic shit post, though comments section is full of people with valid conclusions
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Sure and you're still a racist if you drop hard r's based on your perception of someone, it's a fun and easy easy to tell who's a racist and who simply exists in a racist system.
Experts agree it's specifically a perjorative sexist term, this weird definition that says it's in some crazy way not sexist only seems to exist on the Internet likely because it's very difficult to argue in earnest that the obviously sexist thing you just said isn't sexist.
Even the sources provided call it pejorative which I dunno if you know means it's specifically a slur.
Why require me, someone who does not have professional expertise in a subject, to be the person who gives you answers on that subject, rather than the people who have that?
No one said you specifically, you fucking volunteered so drop the crybaby victim bullshit and answer either of the two questions both of you keep dodging.
Pejorative means it shows disapproval, if I say a term that means anything negative about something, or someone it is a pejorative. If someone throw a fit about something, and I call them childish, that is a pejorative, it is not being used as a slur, it means I disapprove of your choice of action. If that person is a man and I call them a man-baby, that is not me being sexist, it means you are a man, who is acting like a baby. Saying something that means I disapprove of your behavior is absolutely not the same as saying something that means I disapprove of how someone was born. That is the difference between the term mansplaining, and the n word. One is a judgement of actions, one is a judgment of inherent qualities.
I am not saying you are victimizing me by doing this, that is a stupid conclusion to come to. I am asking why you are insisting on asking random people online for answers, when the expert opinions on the subject are right there for you? Why must you get this from people online when you can get high quality answers with a search. If you think asking you why you insist on getting answers from non-experts, when the expert answers are at your finger tips, is being a crybaby (a pejorative BTW, so did you just call me a slur?), or calling myself a victim, I guess that makes you the same for insisting others answer your questions. I refer to myself because, when I pointed you towards the better source for answers, you insisted on an answer from me instead.
Why do you want random people online to give you answers when much higher quality information is available with little extra work?
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For what it's worth, although it seems like a tangent, I do think that's what was originally meant in the comment that started this chain and I was trying to help. I agree that people are using it with its intended meaning (but could be making an error in judgement).
Yeah, I don't see why that's such a difficult concept to grasp. I suppose maybe they believe their interpretation of scenarios is always the objectively correct one and also incredibly obvious so anyone with a different interpretation is wrong? Unsurprisingly, that's a pretty condescending way to view the world. They seemed to want to twist my words to make what I was saying into something about "snap judgements".
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I really appreciate this perspective and it really does shine light on how one is raised based on their gender. I can think of a multitude of examples from your perspective and also from who you are responding to.
I'm absolutely positive that, regardless of how hard I tried not to, I did raise my son and daughter differently. All I hope is that I did a little better than my parents did for me and my brothers and, should they have kids themselves, my children do a little better than I did, and so on and so forth.
Today is not that day but maybe when I'm dust, society will slowly limp along and evolve. Conversations like this may seem divisive now but I think they're needed in the grand scheme of things.
Some humans in the future might wake up in a better world because of people like you. Keep it up!
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I think that's how most people are. They don't identify as sexist, but they do sexist things because of conditioning. No one ever thinks they're a bad person, best we can do is try to be aware of our bullshit and keep learning.
No one ever thinks they're a bad person
Well, there are people who do identify as sexists. Hell, the latest Jubilee episode shows that there are people identifying as fascists. All I wanted to say is that I do not believe that men and women have fundamentally different capabilities.
Nevertheless, I do sexist things and it's disgusting and I have little to no control over it. Hopefully I will grow to control it
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How many women are? They have been notoriously under diagnosed, so what? We still have to live and adapt to this world, regardless.
I got my autism diagnoses at 39 years of age. Not that it does any good besides validating many of my lived experiences.
Consider how many women are ND and have been forced fed the notion that we must sit down, shut up, focus, stay on task, do our duties, be strong women, never rock the boat, never be weird, keep a clean home, raise our children right, get paired with the ND boys in class who do actually get diagnosed so as to keep them on task, understand that boys will be boys ad nauseum.
If I could adapt without any sympathy others can, too, man or woman. Communication is practiced. It must be nurtured from a young age regardless of any roadblocks you're born with or born to.
What I noticed was that most of my best friends were diagnosed. We clicked not only because we were similar but also because my teachers paired me with them and it brought us closer for it. Meanwhile, I struggled in school myself. I also had to hold the hands of my friends and be their keepers. It makes me upset that they had extra help while more responsibility was foisted on me when I needed help myself and never got it.
How am I a bartender who can absolutely relate to what she is saying and how he responded while still, also, being ND myself? Is it any wonder I never went into secondary schooling with the experience I had from grade school to highschool?
One of my patrons is so much further on the spectrum than I and I would never condescend to her while she is speaking about anything. I'm truly happy to hear about anything she has to talk about.
But if someone, man or woman, comes into my establishment and spoke to me in the same vein he is, I'd respond the same way she did because that response is something I learned to adapt to my surroundings regardless of a diagnosis.
He fell right into a trap she set and he did it all by himself by typing it out and hitting send. If he's eloquent enough to respond the way he did, he's deserving of the answer he got. There is no excuse here that would make me forgive his response.
If you're going to use your diagnosis as a crutch, be off with you. You can disagree, but not anywhere in this little text post is there any indication that he even is NB in the first place.
What she was saying is something that women struggle with NB or not. Men also have their own struggles. Both are valid and there's no reason to be defensive about her response unless you're guilty of doing it yourself. But then you're just projecting.
Uhhhh, this post was about mansplaining....
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Luckily I never do mansplaining because I don’t understand how anything works.
Women often complain that when they go to home depot the workers always ask what project they are doing and walk them through how to do it instead of just pointing them to the product they are looking for.
Honestly I’d love nothing more than for a Home Depot worker to ask me about my project and walk me through how to do it. It would save me the inevitable return trip(s) to pick up that one part or tool I didn’t think about.
But I understand that it could be seen as condescending if you do know what you’re doing and just need help finding the thing you already know you need.
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Pejorative means it shows disapproval, if I say a term that means anything negative about something, or someone it is a pejorative. If someone throw a fit about something, and I call them childish, that is a pejorative, it is not being used as a slur, it means I disapprove of your choice of action. If that person is a man and I call them a man-baby, that is not me being sexist, it means you are a man, who is acting like a baby. Saying something that means I disapprove of your behavior is absolutely not the same as saying something that means I disapprove of how someone was born. That is the difference between the term mansplaining, and the n word. One is a judgement of actions, one is a judgment of inherent qualities.
I am not saying you are victimizing me by doing this, that is a stupid conclusion to come to. I am asking why you are insisting on asking random people online for answers, when the expert opinions on the subject are right there for you? Why must you get this from people online when you can get high quality answers with a search. If you think asking you why you insist on getting answers from non-experts, when the expert answers are at your finger tips, is being a crybaby (a pejorative BTW, so did you just call me a slur?), or calling myself a victim, I guess that makes you the same for insisting others answer your questions. I refer to myself because, when I pointed you towards the better source for answers, you insisted on an answer from me instead.
Why do you want random people online to give you answers when much higher quality information is available with little extra work?
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pejorative
: a word or phrase that has negative connotations (see connotation sense 1) or that is intended to disparage or belittle : a pejorative word or phrase
It's sexist and so is man baby, you're needlessly gendering shit to make it othered.
You're literally crying about me doing this to you, just don't answer and moreover some come to me and cry like I'm making you participate.
Yeah, effort.. who needs that shit huh? The easy way is always the best way huh?
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https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pejorative
: a word or phrase that has negative connotations (see connotation sense 1) or that is intended to disparage or belittle : a pejorative word or phrase
It's sexist and so is man baby, you're needlessly gendering shit to make it othered.
You're literally crying about me doing this to you, just don't answer and moreover some come to me and cry like I'm making you participate.
Yeah, effort.. who needs that shit huh? The easy way is always the best way huh?
Asking you why you are asking me, when provided with professional sources is "literally crying about you doing this to me"? See, now you are doing exactly what I expressed in my first post on this. You are taking context clues and interpreting them to make a judgement call on me. This is what women who are being condescendingly explained things to them by men. Like some, you are misreading the person you are speaking to. I also notice the word slur isn't in that definition. Highlighting that stuff isn't the correction you might think it is, if I express a term to display my disapproval, it is demonstrating negative connotations, and belittling someone does not have inherent bigotry to it. If you are being condescending, you are belittling someone, so turn about is fair play. This is calling out your choice of actions. If I call a man, acting immaturely, a man-baby that is a statement about physical development, being grown, a man, vs a child, but they are acting in a way a child would. Same thing for woman-babies, or as they are more commonly known now, Karens, with Karen butting into other terms such as man-baby too. Mansplaining doesn't have centuries of intense persecution, torture, slavery, and many other awful things, things happening to this day, behind it. You are putting mansplaining on that level. Even if I agreed it was misandry, this would be a serious miss-equivocation.
"Yeah, effort… who needs that shit huh? The easy way is always the best way huh?"
Yes clearly, I provided the way to get professional answers about the subject you are asking for, that is the best way to get information, in this case. I can lead you to water, but can't make you drink. You seem to be thinking I should also scoop up the water, and pour it down your throat for you. I am asking why you think being given a means of answering your questions, from the best possible sources, is dodging your question, or why you would desire random assholes' takes on the subject, rather than professional ones. This makes no sense, unless you have some ulterior motive. You ask for answers, I provide a means to get the best ones that can be achieved in this context, you then insist randos on a forum answer instead.
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No one ever thinks they're a bad person
Well, there are people who do identify as sexists. Hell, the latest Jubilee episode shows that there are people identifying as fascists. All I wanted to say is that I do not believe that men and women have fundamentally different capabilities.
Nevertheless, I do sexist things and it's disgusting and I have little to no control over it. Hopefully I will grow to control it
Without getting into philosophy, people who call themselves fascists and sexists don't necessarily feel they're "bad" because of it.
Yes, I made a generalization, but this isn't a term paper and I don't have references.
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No. You're adding random shit that I never said and still avoiding two simple questions.
Wrong. I haven't added anything, just followed your reasoning.
Let's walk through it:
Scenario: A woman believes a man is being misogynistic towards her.
Your assessment: She can't actually know that he's intending to be misogynistic. Therefore she is making an assumption that it's based on sex/gender. By doing that, she is being bigoted/sexist/misandrous.
Based on your words:
That explanation requires prior knowledge or post hoc knowledge otherwise you’re simply saying it’s based on sex
requires someone to know the intent of the speaker which means they know them or they’re simply assuming
How do they “know” anymore then the man “knows” you aren’t aware of whatever it is they’re explaining?
They don’t, they assume, it’s just a bigoted assumption.
it makes them a bigot to simply assume shit based on sex
I've asked you to explain how this somehow doesn't follow, but all you can do is accuse me of being obtuse, or adding in random shit.
So again, the sound conclusion of your logic is: Any woman who believes a man is being misogynistic towards her is actually herself being prejudiced or discriminatory towards him.
As for this:
still avoiding two simple questions
I literally quoted them and responded directly to them in my previous response. What an absolutely pathetic attempt at gaslighting.
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I mean they aren't wrong, she's patronizing them with condescension they can't perceive because of their clear deficits.
I mean yes ADHD and Autism are clear deficits but you don't need to be a dick about it.
