Shamelessly stolen from Reddit
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I think you could make the same argument for other things. Why do you tip servers in America? Aren’t you just propping up a system that screws them over? Why are you forgiving student loans? Aren’t you just propping up a system that put them into debt in the first place?
I’m also mostly speaking from my first hand experience with a vet with PTSD. But it’s very possible that experience isn’t representative of your average vet. But I’m trying to approach the situation with empathy for those fucked over by the government.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I think you could make the same argument for other things. Why do you tip servers in America? Aren’t you just propping up a system that screws them over? Why are you forgiving student loans? Aren’t you just propping up a system that put them into debt in the first place?
Yes! Yes! YES!
Obviously the answer is to change the system.
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Assisting during disasters
Emergency responders do this with much less overhead - like, well, weapons. They also receive a much more extensive training for this specific kind of thing.
Supporting and maintaining equipment
Military equipment, i.e. literal murder machines.
Stabilizing areas
UN Peacekeepers do this. National armies serve "national interests", as defined by the government backing them. They are not always interested in deescalation of conflicts, and US Army in particular stirred so many conflicts and made them so much worse because it served US government. Same idea for the rest.
It's not the soldiers decision
It's their decision to join the army and voluntarily give up their right to refuse. If you know you can be sent to raze territories and people, why do you join in the first place? There are better places to do good aspects of what army occasionally does.
The primary role of military is to project power by either destroying or threatening to destroy anything a given government doesn't like. Everything else comes secondary, and if not for that, we would have dedicated personnel only meant to do the good things instead. Don't buy weapons and helicopters, train people to respond to emergencies and assist local civilians in hostile areas. UN does this. But hey, how do you instate banana republics then?
Yea not reading all that. I know it's just your opinion. Facts are the military isn't a murder machine. They serve the country in multiple areas. Many areas that don't get credit. They also do a lot of harm. But the vast majority of soldiers are amazing people who do more good in their lifetime than I bet you probably do. Much of a soldier's career is helping other people. You have a very simplistic understanding of what a military is.
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I think you could make the same argument for other things. Why do you tip servers in America? Aren’t you just propping up a system that screws them over? Why are you forgiving student loans? Aren’t you just propping up a system that put them into debt in the first place?
Yes! Yes! YES!
Obviously the answer is to change the system.
wrote last edited by [email protected]100% I agree the system needs to change. But what I asking is do you immediately remove the badaids on the current system? Or do you leave those bandaids in place until the current system is changed?
Edit: genuinely I don’t see how downvoting me without providing an alternative solution is helpful. If you think you understand how we fix the underlying system, I want to know the answer. All I’m asking is how do we fix the system without hurting working class people in the process (e.g. denying restaurant wait staff the tips they rely on to pay rent).
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Why are you forgiving student loans?
That's the federal government's administration of a federal government program, so no, that's not the same at all.
Why do you tip servers in America?
That's the basic deal. If a restaurant implements a no tipping policy, they're allowed to do that. I don't see how that's the same or different from a restaurant implementing a "discount for veterans" or "no discounts for veterans" policy. It sounds like we're in favor of a system where the restaurant chooses what they want to be about, whether it's a tip-based system or not, or a discounts for vets place or not.
So in a sense, it sounds like you agree with me that we should let the restaurants choose. Neither choice is a "punishment" of anyone.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I agree that the underlying system needs to be changed. But what I’m saying is you have a system that is not ideal, and you have bandaids on that system. For example, it’s very not ideal that restaurant servers depends on tips for a living. However, if you stop tipping without requiring restaurants to pay servers a living wage, aren’t you screwing over the server, not the restaurant? Or do you leave those bandaids in place while you try and fundamentally change the underlying system?
I’m asking. I don’t know the history of how systems like this have been changed in the past. But the examples I gave, in my mind, are all systems in US that are broken and have bandaid solutions. It’s not ideal that we offer better services to vets with PTSD, it’s not ideal that restaurant wait staff requires tips to pay rent, and it’s not ideal that student loans are required to pay for an education.
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Yea not reading all that. I know it's just your opinion. Facts are the military isn't a murder machine. They serve the country in multiple areas. Many areas that don't get credit. They also do a lot of harm. But the vast majority of soldiers are amazing people who do more good in their lifetime than I bet you probably do. Much of a soldier's career is helping other people. You have a very simplistic understanding of what a military is.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Not reading all that
The most blatant evasion.
Short version personally for you: all good things military does are better done by other specially trained people. And they don't need deadly weapons for this. Military doesn't make sense outside killing context.
P.S. My dad served in the army before he disappeared, so I'm pretty sure I know a bit.
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I'm not from the U.S., but why would people from the military get a discount? If you do that as a store, why not doctors and nurses too? Why stop there and why not include firefighters, government workers or teachers?
And who compensates you as a business owner for these giveaways? If your store happens to be close to an army base, do you just accept the disadvantage of giving away part of your profit?
It sounds pretty stupid. People should get paid enough to pay full price for their stuff. Especially by the government. Especially in a country that allocates an enormous part of their GDP to their military.
why not doctors and nurses too? Why stop there and why not include firefighters, government workers or teachers?
Some places do this.
Who compensates you
In a round about way - everyone else. Though it's possible you just make less profit 5% of the time.
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Not reading all that
The most blatant evasion.
Short version personally for you: all good things military does are better done by other specially trained people. And they don't need deadly weapons for this. Military doesn't make sense outside killing context.
P.S. My dad served in the army before he disappeared, so I'm pretty sure I know a bit.
Bro just put their fingers in their ears like Dumb and Dumber. That's the level of ignoring reality military bootlickers have to do.
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Comment history*
Apologies, I often forget I'm an extremely poor communicator in a community filled with intelligent neurodivergent people, and I need to contextualize better.
Which makes me an idiot. Not a coward. - to answer your question
I mean I scrolled thru your comments too but there was nothing that stood out to me. I don't know how your comment history is supposed to show you are an idiot but I'm willing to take your word for it
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Maybe I'm weird, but I guess I don't care about military discounts. I probably just don't have much experience with veterans. But like we give senior citizens discounts some places, because it's expected they don't have much money. And there's lots of old folks who need it. Haven't military folks traditionally had a hard time reintegrating? Like isn't that the plot of "the forever war"? If it helps the ones who need it then good. Helping people in need is a good thing. I'm probably missing something so let me know what it is.
wrote last edited by [email protected]That's not what a military discount is or does. It's for active duty only, or full time retired, meaning you need an active and valid military ID on your person that matches YOU. Not your wife, not your friend Larry, not your brother Darrell, not your OTHER brother Darrell, YOU. It's one of the things that makes life harder for people who leave the military. And while your in it, it does you little good.
I know this because I've managed stores with military discounts. The only thing worse than having to say ''we don't do that'' is ''Yes we do'' Because the reality is that unless your talking to an old guy in a military insignia cap, or a surprisingly young enlisted person in uniform or military sweats, they aren't getting the ID. You got your shins blown off in Vietnam? Well fuck you, the discount is for active enlisted and CAREER officers. No one the fuck else. Guess how many dessert storm, Vietnam, Iraq, Korean War, or WWII vets like hearing that shit explained to them. They are LIVID. They want ass pats and bjs they don't want to hear they can't save $0.07 on a pile of lumber because they didn't make being drafted a career just got PTSD and forever shrapnel. I LOVE telling people no discount for anyone. It's fantastic.
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Maybe I'm weird, but I guess I don't care about military discounts. I probably just don't have much experience with veterans. But like we give senior citizens discounts some places, because it's expected they don't have much money. And there's lots of old folks who need it. Haven't military folks traditionally had a hard time reintegrating? Like isn't that the plot of "the forever war"? If it helps the ones who need it then good. Helping people in need is a good thing. I'm probably missing something so let me know what it is.
Why would they get a discount for choosing a job that involves them attacking other countries?
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I love people getting upset when someone says fuck the troops 🥰
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I love people getting upset when someone says fuck the troops 🥰
make sure you mean metaphorically
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I'm not from the U.S., but why would people from the military get a discount? If you do that as a store, why not doctors and nurses too? Why stop there and why not include firefighters, government workers or teachers?
And who compensates you as a business owner for these giveaways? If your store happens to be close to an army base, do you just accept the disadvantage of giving away part of your profit?
It sounds pretty stupid. People should get paid enough to pay full price for their stuff. Especially by the government. Especially in a country that allocates an enormous part of their GDP to their military.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Teachers did actually get benefits in my country until 2016. It was a pretty decent system.
If you are a landlord then having an operational school nearby increases local rent prices so you do get to profit from charging teachers less rent.
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wrote last edited by [email protected]
I worked at a popular restaurant near a major VA hospital, and this is how I explained why we only had a military discount for active duty, not veterans. Surprisingly, it seemed like a satisfactory explanation more often than not.
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You're extremist that are driving politics to the fringes based on in/out group think. You're highly exploitable and manipulated by people in power while believing you're fighting for values that somehow superior to everyone and everything else. If you weren't all so ineffective you'd be dangerous.
being anti-mass murder is violent extremism, TIL
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I don’t see how this is helpful. I guess you’re trying to remove incentives for joining the military? But really you’re just punishing veterans with PTSD. Keep in mind the military, at least in America, recruits what are effectively kids and then makes it a crime to disobey orders or quit. I’m not saying soldiers aren’t responsible for their actions, but also that kinda feels like punishing the working class for the crimes of the ruling class.
makes it a crime to disobey orders
That's the opposite of the truth, if the orders are unlawful.
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makes it a crime to disobey orders
That's the opposite of the truth, if the orders are unlawful.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Getting an order proven unlawful in court martial is next to impossible. It's not like the movies. The order would have to be a long the lines of "shoot those pregnant women knitting socks for legless orphans"-level of evil in order to win the case.
It'll be years of court while serving your sentence, a guaranteed separation, and questionable as to whether you'd even retain your benefits like healthcare or GI bill.
You're probably better off pleading insanity than trying to argue an order was unlawful. It sucks but that's the way it is. The military is a machine made up of 100% expendable resources at this point.
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You're extremist that are driving politics to the fringes based on in/out group think. You're highly exploitable and manipulated by people in power while believing you're fighting for values that somehow superior to everyone and everything else. If you weren't all so ineffective you'd be dangerous.
wrote last edited by [email protected]You’re extremist that are driving politics to the fringes based on in/out group think.
Can you elaborate on this, what in/out group think? Those that enable war crimes and those that dont?
You’re highly exploitable and manipulated by people in power
Which people in power recommend reading Marx, Lenin, Fanon, Feinberg or any of those people??
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Fuck Reddit and its suppression of my freedom to say removed
Yeah, auto-censored Lemmy instances are peak freedom, indeed
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This post did not contain any content.wrote last edited by [email protected]
The only time I would give a military discount would be if you are a military member that meets the following criteria:
- You were conscripted for a defensive war
OR
- You volunteered (as in you weren't paid) to fight a defensive war
If you fight for a professional army, you're a professional, and professionals don't need discounts because they're doing what they're paid to do.
