Then they will ask why nobody wants to use their payment cards
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If someone steals your debit card, they can directly take money out of your account. With credit cards, there's a buffer between the product and the bank account, and it makes it easier to stop fraud
Well not to stop it before it happens, surely, but an easier time reclaiming your money due to the buffer.
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except for the insane fluctuations in currency value and the immense inefficiency of the whole system and all the fraud even in "stable" coins and all the lack of regulation
wrote last edited by [email protected]The lack of regulation is pretty much a goal. When a government controls or regulate a currency, your liberty is attacked.
Fraud? What are you talking about?
How is the system inefficient though? Compared to what? I don't believe it's fair to compare a decentralized system to a centralized one. Lemmy is much more expensive to run per user than Reddit for example
Fluctuations suck indeed, though they vary, it depends of the crypto
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The lack of regulation is pretty much a goal. When a government controls or regulate a currency, your liberty is attacked.
Fraud? What are you talking about?
How is the system inefficient though? Compared to what? I don't believe it's fair to compare a decentralized system to a centralized one. Lemmy is much more expensive to run per user than Reddit for example
Fluctuations suck indeed, though they vary, it depends of the crypto
By inefficiency I just mean transactions per kWh. It's insane how expensive cryptocurrencies can get.
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By inefficiency I just mean transactions per kWh. It's insane how expensive cryptocurrencies can get.
Sadly true for PoW cryptos. Luckily, PoS exists, but it might not work with every crypto.
More kWh = more secured chain, that's currently how it works. At this point blocks are going to be mined anyways, so let's fill those blocks
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Benefits of centralization: Someone can counteract harmful interactions.
Drawbacks of centralization: Someone can decide legitimate interactions are harmful.
It does suck when the “harmful interaction management system” goes haywire. But I’m not sure it sucks enough that I’d rather simply not have one.
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But is it really worth all of the junk that you have to accept? I like the credit scoring, the monthly subscription, and, if you miss the date for paying back, the absurdly high fees. Well, yes, with the debit card you have, technically speaking, the risk of someone being able to make about 100€ worth of RFID payments, and then the code is needed again for the next 100€ RFID payments. For everything else that doesn't involve RFID, the code is needed always.
wrote last edited by [email protected]The US implementation of chip and PIN left off the PIN. The reason given was "no one wants to put in a PIN every time" so for the vast majority of transactions you just hold up your card to the sensor or put it in the chip reader. PIN is only required for cash withdrawals in my experience.
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I guess the dollar might need to end, but for different reasons.
As long as Trump is in power, he can in principle just print as many dollars as he wants to and spend them on what he likes.
The mechanism is by (ab-)using the Federal Reserve bank. It hands out "loans" to the government, the government never really has to pay them back. (it's called national debt)
Ending the existence of the dollar seems to be the only real way to take a money-printing machine out of Trump's hands.
I'm not saying this lightheartedly, just considering the options.
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If someone steals your debit card, they can directly take money out of your account. With credit cards, there's a buffer between the product and the bank account, and it makes it easier to stop fraud
I've had my debit card information stolen before. My bank knew before I did, cancelled the fraudulent charges, and refunded my money without any action on my part. Doesn't seem like a credit card would have been any advantage in my [admittedly anecdotal] case.
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Benefits of centralization: Someone can counteract harmful interactions.
Drawbacks of centralization: Someone can decide legitimate interactions are harmful.
It does suck when the “harmful interaction management system” goes haywire. But I’m not sure it sucks enough that I’d rather simply not have one.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Yeah it's a personal level of comfort sort of thing. Some people value one side of the equation while some people value the other side. Strong case for vendors accepting both cards and crypto instead of just one.
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If someone steals your debit card, they can directly take money out of your account. With credit cards, there's a buffer between the product and the bank account, and it makes it easier to stop fraud
Debit cards typically have PIN numbers.
I know these can be defeated in various ways, but its not usually as simple as, just steal someone's card.
Also, you can just go to your bank or credit union, call them, report online or w/e: Hey, my card got stolen, these txns are fraud.
Might not be as streamlined or as fast as a payment challenge with a credit card, but its not that much worse.
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except for the insane fluctuations in currency value and the immense inefficiency of the whole system and all the fraud even in "stable" coins and all the lack of regulation
wrote last edited by [email protected]-
"Insane fluctuations in currency value": Someone who makes most of their payments in crypto is likely doing it with a stablecoin, which is a cryptocurrency pegged 1-to-1 to a fiat currency, like the US dollar. So, no more wild fluctuations than the 10% decrease in value the USD has experienced over the past year. Speaking of which, the 100% increase in BTC value this past year certainly is wild, but I don't think any of it's holders would consider that a problem.
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"Immense inefficiency of the whole system": If you consider the US military to be the value security for the world's dominant fiat currency [which you would be foolish not to] Proof of Work security is a large improvement on energy use. Proof of Stake security, which most stablecoins use these days, doesn't really use any energy worth noting.
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"All the fraud": Credit cards suffer far more fraud than crypto. Perhaps that's a product of their wider adoption, but that's where 99% of the fraud is happening.
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"The lack of regulation": One of the hottest topics in US congress over the past several years, for both Biden and Trump regimes, has been crypto regulation. It's a moving space right now but it seems myopic to call lack of regulation when it's certainly going to be a moot point by 2028.
Sorry I don't really consider myself to be some crypto warrior but I do really dislike these decade+ old off the cuff relatively low-information talking points. This is not how you argue against crypto, if you want a strong argument against crypto come at it from an explicitly anti-capitalist lens and accuse it of accelerating global financialization, which it is, like a gas can poured on a campfire. Go big or go home. If you don't oppose capitalism and you're just looking for a better money, crypto is not your boogeyman.
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A credit card, in the US, has a transaction fee for the vendor, 1-3% of the purchase price, sometimes with a flat few cents fee on top.
The consumer has no transaction fee, but does pay interest (around 28% annually) if they don't pay off the full balance every month (if they do pay it in full at the end of the month, there is no interest charge). Usually there will be a 1-2% cash back for the consumer as well.
Some credit cards also have an annual fee for the consumer. These generally have higher cash back rewards and higher vendor transaction fees than those that don't.
Don't forget secured cards, which require an upfront deposit, and cards with regular monthly or annual fees, simply for having them, regardless of whether you use them or not.
Thats the kind of credit cards you get offered if you are bad with credit cards (cough most Americans are cough thats kinda the whole business model cough), or, if someone steals your identity and you either don't have enough time or money or otherwise can't sufficiently prove to credit reporting agencies / banks that that is what happened.
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Honestly, what's the point of a credit card? Why don't people mostly use debit cards? It gets just directly wire transferred from your account. No sort of junk fees or monthly subscription needed. Genuine Question.
My debit card is a master card.
They still need to go through a payment processor, using a debit instead of credit card isn't really the solution to the current problems.
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I'm glad we're spending the equivalent of a couple dozen million households of electricity on it
wrote last edited by [email protected]Meanwhile the US military's energy budget eclipses global crypto mining essentially to maintain petrodollar dominance and American residents pay for it.
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The lack of regulation is pretty much a goal. When a government controls or regulate a currency, your liberty is attacked.
Fraud? What are you talking about?
How is the system inefficient though? Compared to what? I don't believe it's fair to compare a decentralized system to a centralized one. Lemmy is much more expensive to run per user than Reddit for example
Fluctuations suck indeed, though they vary, it depends of the crypto
The lack of regulation is pretty much a goal. When a government controls or regulate a currency, your liberty is attacked.
If your argument hinges on avoiding regulation, then it's guaranteed to fail. Having oversight is not a bad thing.
The idea of positive self-regulation, especially of a currency in a capitalist system, is pure fantasy.
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A dollar in fees is a dollar more than with fiat for the person paying. That and do you expect enough normal people to learn about L2s and chains to make it worthwhile for Valve or whoever to implement support for anything besides the main chains of 2-3 major cryptos and stablecoins on ethereum main?
wrote last edited by [email protected]I mean either you care enough about payment processor censorship to go around them or you don't. If the extra dollar isn't worth it to you then that is what it is.
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So then don't carry 500 in cash then. You only need enough cash in your wallet to cover the expenses you might encounter in a single day. And having cash on you doesn't mean you can't have cards too in case you need more money
wrote last edited by [email protected]So less king and more part of a council?
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People who use credit cards don't pay the transaction fee. If the product is priced at 10 Stanly nickle they only play 10 Stanley nickle. Lot of credit cards also offer cash back so people might get 1-5% back depending on what the category for the month is.
When it comes to transaction fees you are going to have to sell the vender on it than the consumer since they are the one paying.
Oh you're definitely paying the credit card fee too, but since it's the vendor who gets billed it's just priced into the product. That's why the product costs 10 Stanly nickle instead of 9 Stanly nickle.
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Oh sure, now Lemmy wants to embrace crypto instead of calling it a scam, all because your porn was threatened.
I had to put up with so much abuse here just because I always say positive things about crypto. You people suck.
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The transaction fee is not paid by the consumer (directly), and lord knows sellers are not going to lower prices based on payment method.
Sadly, this is probably true. Unless they're trying to steer customers away from more troublesome payment providers.
